If you are estranged from your adult child, if your child has cut you out of his or her life—whether for a long or short time—it is a gut-wrenching experience. When your child cuts you out of her life it provokes deep feelings of shame, guilt, bewilderment, and hurt, all of which can easily turn to anger. On top of that, it can also arouse people’s worst suspicions (surely, the Smiths must be terrible parents for their daughter to cut them off like that!) and leave you feeling judged, even by friends and family.
Sometimes, of course, there are circumstances in which cutting off from a parent is the only viable option for an adult child (age 18 and older), for instance, in the case of past or present physical, emotional or sexual abuse from a parent.
While it’s common to pin the reason for the estrangement on everything from money issues, to personality conflicts, to divorce or difficult family dynamics, many times, though, estranged parents are left in the dark trying to figure out what went wrong.
And when you are in the dark, the easiest thing to blame is yourself—to believe that you failed as a parent.
But here’s the reality: it was not your choice to sever the relationship. Although you may have contributed to the tensions between you, you are not responsible for your child’s choice to cut you off.
Many adult children struggle with their parents, or with money issues, etc., but not all of them cut ties with their parents. Why do some cut off while others go through similar struggles and stay connected?
Why Some Kids Distance Themselves
We humans manage stress in pretty predictable ways. We have a fight or flight response just like other species. And some people are more prone to distancing (flight) when emotional intensity gets high.
Let’s take Joe, for example. Joe was living at home after college, and his parents felt he was aimless. He would sleep in late, not help around the house, wouldn’t get a steady job, and was rude and disrespectful.
Joe’s parents were understandably concerned and anxious about his lack of direction. They would nag, yell, and question him daily as to his game plan. He would be vague or get nasty, which caused his parents to get on his back even more.
Eventually, Joe moved out. He didn’t tell his parents where he moved and didn’t contact them for over a year.
To understand Joe’s response, we have to recognize that when some people feel anxious, tired of conflict or pressure, or too much of the sticky family togetherness, their response is to distance themselves, be it emotionally, physically or both. When a person distances from others, they feel a sense of relief because the distance seemingly brings the conflict to an end. Of course, nothing is actually resolved; instead, more stress is generated.
On the outside, it looks as though Joe and his parents are disconnected. But on the inside, they are actually thinking about each other all the time and remain overly focused on one another. They are, in fact, still extremely involved with one another: they are emotionally bound up together, even though all communication has ceased. Neither is free from the original problem; nor are they free from each other.
Extreme Distancing: Cutting Off
Distancing, at its extreme, turns to cutting off. It can occur after long periods of conflict or as a sudden reaction to a difficult encounter. Whatever the issue, the person doing the cutting off has difficulty addressing and resolving the problem directly and maturely. Instead, like Joe, they stop communicating. Continuing the relationship seems unmanageable to them.
When a parent and child are too emotionally bound up with each other, they are more susceptible to cutting off when anxiety is high.
Joe and his parents, for instance, were overly involved and entangled with each other. He was not taking responsibility for himself, nor were his parents taking responsibility for themselves.
His parents did not stand up and let him know what they would and wouldn’t accept. Instead they nagged, begged and hoped he would change. He dug his heels in deeper, did less when pushed, and refused to address his part of the problem.
They were living in reaction to one another, rather than each taking responsibility for their part of the family conflict. The only way that Joe could see to solve the problem was to distance himself and eventually cut-off from his parents; Joe didn’t have the skills necessary to untie the knots, to grow up and face himself.
Parents feel powerless when no contact is possible, when they can’t negotiate or even talk with their child. Should you contact your child or not? How long should you try? What should you say?
Five Tips When Estranged and Cut Off From Your Child
1. Get Support
Being cut off by your child, with no ability to understand, communicate and resolve things, is difficult enough. That’s why being connected to others who love and understand you is particularly important. In addition to reaching out to friends and family, consider joining a support group. If you are not able to function at your best, get some professional help.
2. Don’t Cut off in Response
You are not the one cutting ties; your child is. Don’t cut off your child in response. Continue to reach out to him, letting him know that you love him and that you want to mend whatever has broken. Send birthday and holiday messages as well as occasional brief notes or emails. Simply say that you are thinking about him and hope to have the opportunity to reconnect. Send your warmth, love and compassion—as you get on with your life.
3. Don’t Feed the Anger
It’s understandable to feel angry. And in their attempt to be supportive, friends and family may fuel your feelings of betrayal, inadvertently increasing your anger. Anger is natural, but not helpful. Step back and try to understand what led to this estrangement. What patterns were operating in your family dance? If you can look at your family from a more factual vantage point, it may feel less personal. No one is to blame. Now if the door opens, you will be in a much better position to reconcile.
4. Listen to Your Child Without Defending Yourself
If the door opens with your child, listen with an open heart. Listen to her perceptions of what wrongs took place. Even if you disagree with her, look for the grains of truth. Be willing to look at yourself. It’s hard to hear these criticisms, especially if your intentions were misunderstood. So prepare yourself to handle this. Your adult child may need to hold on to blame as a way to manage her own anxiety. Just letting her know that you hear her will go a long way. Keep in mind that she, too, had to be in tremendous pain to reach the point of shutting you out. Try to empathize with her pain rather than get caught up in the hurt and anger.
5. Focus on Yourself, Not Your Child
If you do begin communicating again, you will be in a position to learn from the mistakes of the past and work toward an improved relationship. Put your efforts into changing yourself, not your child. Let go of your resentments regarding the estrangement. Understand his need to flee—and forgive him.
Understanding and Hope
Get to know the adult child you have, not the child you think he should have been. Allow him to get to know you. If your child still has made no contact, grieve the loss and know there is still hope. Try to manage your anxiety, and do the right thing by staying in touch with him in a non-intrusive way: occasionally and lovingly. Things may change.
Rather than blame yourself or your child for this pain, use your energy to learn about yourself, your own family history and patterns in your other relationships. Look for other patterns of cutting off in your family tree.
Remember that shutting a person out is a response to anxiety and a family that is overly entangled with one another. Your actions or lack of action didn’t cause this. Cutting off is a way people manage anxiety when they don’t know a better way. The love and caring is there; the ability to solve differences is not. You did not make your child to turn away. That was her decision. It may have been a poor one, but it was the best she could do at the time. Try to get your focus off of her at least 50 percent of the day, which will make a difference.
Your pain is real. Be mindful and compassionate of it, but don’t allow it to define or overwhelm you. Put the focus on what you have control of: your own life.
Related content:
Living with a Broken Heart: Are You Estranged from Your Child?
About Debbie Pincus, MS LMHC
For more than 25 years, Debbie has offered compassionate and effective therapy and coaching, helping individuals, couples and parents to heal themselves and their relationships. Debbie is the creator of the Calm Parent AM & PM™ program and is also the author of numerous books for young people on interpersonal relations.
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I have been reading upon the subject of Estrangement for some time. Most days it helps, some times it does not. I agree with so much of what I've read and I've found myself in the same shoes of so many of you. It's such a devastating issue. I feel I could write a book on just our story about it, but my main point is that I am better now. At least I feel better most days and more hours than not. I just wish I could get my husband in a better place about it. That's my major concern at this point, among the other concerns and most importantly of when will it work out?!
Our issue is that we are now estranged from 2 of our 3 daughters. The situation started over 2 years ago with our middle daughter. This year is transferred over to our eldest daughter after lines in the sand were apparently drawn. Now even our youngest daughter, who is 21 and grown out on her own is estranged from the other two girls since she doesn't see it their way and refuses to take part in their non-sense as she calls it. I'm not sure who's the crazy one any more. Is it me, the older two, our youngest or their Father/my husband. To say it's been a world win of ups, downs, trys, arguments, text wars, hurt feelings, gifts sent with apologies, holler matches, and one curse out by my husband with our middle daughter that was the final straw for her and caused her Estrangement last year. She is our only child that is married with a family of her own. Though the issue was one with her we can no longer see our only Grand daughter. She has since had another child, a son, to which we have never been allowed contact. This has been the most devastating and heart braking lose to us we have ever suffered.
I wrote to say I am finally doing better. There was so long a time that I was not. I mourned and stayed depressed and angry for so long. I found a way past it, for the most part. It has been a deeper relationship with God. Growing my Faith has been my saving Grace. There are times some days that the devil creeps in with sorrowful thoughts but I do my best to pray through them. It's not to say I don't miss my children and Grandchildren because I do, immensely. But I just couldn't stay in that mindset or I wouldn't have made it through. I have a great husband, wonderful other family and a strong deep friendship base that has also sustained me, but in my loneliest, darkest moments, it's Jesus that sees me through.
I just wish I could get my husband to this point. His Faith has never been as strong as mine. He's still very angry, depressed, in mourning and even angry with God. I have suggested Therapy or talking to my Preacher, but he won't. It affects his sleep, his health, his work life and honestly at times his relationships with others including me if we didn't understand where it comes from and show him Grace. Like I said we have wonderful friends and family that have known us both most of our lives and like us don't understand it, so much Grace is given thankfully.
So just wondering what everyone else does to help your partner get through the worst and learn to go on until a time that God sees fit to reconcile our family or not?
Hurting Nana & Pop Pop
I feel your pain however I realize I am not an angel or a demon in this situation. Like many of you, my adult child went no contact with me. After two and a half years she sent me a brief email and told me her "why". It was good to hear even that. A why. I have been walking around beating myself emotionally. I also , came to realize, she and I did not get to this juncture in life because we had a healthy relationship.
It has taken the last 2.5 years to explore my role in this situation and how to better address my faults and responsibilities. It doesn't hurt that I am a counselor so I know there is no one reason for anything going wrong or right in my personal life and the world.
I've been working on myself. I am briefly answering her infrequent emails with a three day rule. I wait three days to answer any messages so I can one, get myself centered instead of knee jerk reacting and give myself some time to deal with the conflicting feelings I have about her rejecting me and occaisionaly dipping her feet in the stream .
I feel grateful one minute and furious the next.
I need three days to stop being so self centered and hurt about the whole situation. I am not good at using the pause button by the way, I am good at making suggestions to everyone but myself.
She has a right to cut off as much as any human , if she took this drastic step there was enough wrong for her to feel so hurt herself. Ultimatly it is my goal for her to heal. I can work on myself in the interim. I am the adult right? The parent? It is my job to make sure she gets the support she needs.
She is at least trying to recconnect and I never thought that possible. So take heart and hope in that, I am. It may not work out but at least I am throwing the kitchen sink at this and putting my sometimes fragile ego on the back burner.
I have been silent and sent some pathetic rantings to her over the first year. My ego was too damaged to see her perspective. Quite adolescent my first year reaction. I swear I took a few tantrums and blamed her and myself.
Yes, I sent birthday cards and presents, one site I connected with said it might be better not to do that, if your child cut you off they don't get all the perks of being your child, adult or otherwise. I can understand that reasoining but it felt Passive Aggressive to me to do to her, tit for tat, is not a comfortable reaction or response so i send cards, presents and nothing else.
How I am framing this is an approach I am working on:
1. My three day rule of communication if and when she reaches out now.
2. Short note in the response to that I am hoping we can reconnect in a better way and maybe this break from one another can fuel a better relationship, one with more understanding and less explaining.
3. She needs to be heard and what she needs to say may not always be pleasant, I need to put on my armour and withstand the uncomfortable stuff.
4. I cannot take responsiblity for her pain and choices but I can take responsibilty for whatever I did to hurt her. (Birds don't land on my shoulder and the world does not revolve around me but we)
5. Getting therapy to help me help myself to be healthier and explore why I have conflict and what I can do about it. She used to try to be the mother and I let her too often, roles got confusing and she needs to not feel responsible for my feelings, she's the child, even if she is 40 now. I am still and must be the adult in the room.
6. My expectations were not proportionate to any adult child other than a superhero, I have to lower my bar on my expectations of her and our life from past to present. At best, I try to be optimistic despite feeling despair way too often.
My overall feeling now is much different than a year ago and two years ago. I am more detached about her decisions and her path in life that differs greatly from mine. It was always my hope she would soar over the top from my life and choices and outcomes. I think we parents are always hopeful our children will leap ahead of us. It is hard to let go of their outcomes and consequences but it is also great to watch them grow a backbone and take a stand on things even if I am not the one getting the gain or glory. No, I have to detach a bit more to stay sane and she and I are dipping our feet in the water. She actually asked me to do family therapy with me because we have such poor communications skills when there is conflict. I suggested that she get therapy first on her own. She needs someone supporting her right now, a new parent of two little boys, a new life in another state thousands of miles from me and her turn to be a parent to her children, forge her nursing career and take on the world. I suggested she take good care of herself first. THen we can try for family therapy. I think, my personal opinion based on the intricacies of our relationship past to present, we should not put the cart before the wheel. She and I are working on ourselves seperatly. My greatest hope is she gets healed from anything I could have done to make her feel so invisible to me and any harm her life caused her.
What else can I say? We love our kids or we would not be here, sharing our stories. I can get volcanically angry over this, and I have, but I can also find this to be an opportunity for both of us to gain some understanding instead of defending how right we both are and were in any given situation. I would rather she win and get healthier and happier.
Hang in there all of you, there is hope even in the darkest of moments. Get help and support for yourself and know, you deserve to feel love and respect for the hard work that is , parenting. Near impossible sometimes don't you think?
I’ve learned something about my estrangement with my older 3 children I would like to share. My ex-husband trashed me, spoke disrespectfully about me in front of the children after our divorce.
His mother did the same to his father, he saw this as he was growing up. I’ve had estrangement and other issues with those 3 children. My ex-husband was rarely involved with them as they grew up, I was the one who raised and cared for them.
I remarried and had 3 more children with my current husband. Same mother different fathers. I do not see the same problems in my younger 3 children whose father was respectful towards me. They are all adults at this point as well.
I have 2 friends who had ex-husbands who made fun of, and spoke disparagingly about them in front of the children. They’ve bith have had estrangement and various other problems with those adult children from the bashing fathers and both were good mothers.
I thought this was curious, that the amount of respect that was shown to the mother was the one big factor.
The children are the real victims here since half of the child is the father and the other half the mother. When you bash either one of the parents harm is caused to the child.
I heard they tend to go with the louder voice. I believe I would be a perfect case study in this situation. If this helps anyone in understanding their situation I’m glad I shared. My hearts been broken, I’ve suffered severe pain and grief from estrangement and it’s the worst thing a parent can experience.
Our daughter cuts off contact with each new boyfriend.
She is in her 30s, has 2 children. With aga g member who is now in prison.
I go from upwards of 20 calls a day to blocked from everything, phone, text, email.
She has lied since she was a toddler. Consequences do not affect her. She had no limits as to who she lied to.
The pain of losing our only grandchildren is so painful. We were part of t
Their daily lives.
She seems to fit the criteria of a Borderline Personality. She has been in counseling, but leaves quickly. She says she doesn't need it.
When all of her friend finally abandoned her, I was still there. Both her dad and I. She is addicted to "high drama". Everyday, there must be drama, from driving to work, to workplace, to her children. I'm sick and tired of being told we did something to make her walk away. These are her choices.
In March we received a hysterical call & please for help from our youngest son's gf. To be fair he went to college out of state & remains in that state & a similar thing happened when they first began dating while he was still in college, & one very breif incident when they came to visit us & we were all at my parents (his grandparents) house. All 3 times the common denominador as anyone could see, was alcohol. He seemed to be triggered by something & flew into a rage. His anger seems to be feirce during these episodes & he engages in negative self-talk. This last time in Spring she called crying telling us he was talking about moving home to FL & wanting to hurt himself. I got scared & none of what his gf was saying was making sense, so I thought it best to tell her I would book a flight & come see them. I'd had her call the police but they couldn't do anything, he was intoxicated but not harming himself or anyone else & not driving. I spent a week there, where he refused to talk to me, refused my suggestion to get help, belittled me, cursed me out, & ultimately told us to stay out of his life. I noticed his gf was taking everything she & I had talked about & telling him despite seeing how it was making things worse, & nothing she was saying to me made any sense & I couldn't figure out what had triggered him at all. She insisted they did not fight, & there was no other trigger. Their apt was a complete mess which is not really like him, although he isn't the neatest person, neither of them offered me any clean towels or sheets for my stay & she did agree to pick me up from the airport, so she knew I was coming. She spent several days at her parents & I offered to all get together to speak with him but she told me, basically that her parents did not want to meet me. It's been 9 long months he has not spoken to me, my husband, my parents, or my siblings. He has only spoken sporadically to his 2 cousins & his brother. I honestly thought if I gave him what he wanted he would come around. We did send his birthday gift, but heard nothing. I completely understand not cutting him back off but he demanded no contact & blocked us (he stated it, we have not actually tried to call). Something just doesn't sit right about the whole thing & honestly, my gut screams that they had a fight of some sort & she used my showing up against us in some way & spent it to isolate him...as if to say, see even your parents think you're a baby & need taking care of. She told me her parents knew of his first incident/mental break or whatever this was, & that they told her to break up with him...when I spoke to him about that he told her while they were in the next room, & (the apt is not that big I was able to hear) she told him she didn't know why I would say that. My concern was him, so no I didn't confront her...besides, at the moment I wasn't thinking clearly about this all & also didn't want to alienate the only potential connection I had with my son! Her bday is soon & I am planning to send a gift, my husband disagree, but is ok if I send it. And we recently heard from his brother they recently got engagement & had text his 2 cousins & told his brother, but no one else. I was also planning on sending a Christmas gift. There are times when reaching out is not very possible, but I do feel like sending a gift is reaching out but neither of them reach back out & his gf had said she would keep us posted but never did. In a way I get it...that could put her in a position where he could be upset with her, but at the same time I can't help but think how difficult is it to send a quick text or email giving an update or saying things are fine, then deleting it. Or even something saying, things are fine, but, I'm not comfortable going behind his back.
So, I'm really lost & we are all upset...my family members are angry, & it truly hurts because we didn't do anything ever to him, except always support him & try to help him. So, some advice would be great to help us navigate or even understand this all a bit better! Thanks in advance!!
It's been a long 13 years.
I'm not angry. I'm not ranting.
I'm managing the "Rollercoaster of Emotions" by distracting myself: I've professional support, friends, and some family support. I play an instrument attended jam sessions, folk festivals, play bocce ball, walk, swim, volunteer with an organization (I'm retired), camp out,
and kayak. I'm an environmental activist. I do what I can to keep busy, but it never seems enough- especially in the morning when I can't control or stop my dreaming, thoughts and their effect...(I eat too much, and my health is declining- self sabotage). I'm too hard to live with or is have a) a roommate, or b) a significant other.
I'm recently divorced from her father. She's in LA, he's in SFO with his gf.
Signed,
I'm So Lonely In So FL...
Thank you for the article. It helped...
So glad to have found this forum.
My youngest child (f30) has been less and less communicative over the last few months. My oldest child told my husband that it may be due to my “political leanings.” I haven’t been able to confirm this one way or another.
I’m trying to focus on the good, leave the lines of communication open, and concentrate on improving myself as a person.
Thanks for sharing.
I have been cut off by not one, but both my adult daughter's. My first daughter cut me off over 12 months ago after she moved in with her first boyfriend. I expressed my concerns with her about rushing in to this relationship given it was her first and she had not known him that long. I thought I was being a caring parent, but it seemed to be the catalyst for her cutting me off. Up until that point, our relationship seemed like a normal parent/child relationship.
She since split with her boyfriend and now she lives with her grandmother.
My second daughter cut me off a few months ago and I am not entirely sure why. She is also living with her grandmother.
I'm told I don't listen; I want everything my way and I have anger issues. I could argue that they don't listen and they want everything their way, but I don't because I accept that this behaviour is relatively normal for a child so it's water of a ducks back for me. On the anger issue, I'll put my hands up and admit that I don't have a lot of patience, but there is a reason for that and there needs to be a little understanding. I have a third child who is profoundly disabled. From birth he could not communicate in any way; he is 16 years old but his development won't exceed 6 months; he can't walk; he is fed through a tube; he has multiple seizures daily etc etc. The last 16 years have been very challenging for me and I'm sorry, but I'm not perfect.
Despite this difficult environment, I have made sure, to the best of my ability, that the girls did not miss out on anything through their childhood, including their father. I have always been there for them, supported them, told them I loved them and that I was proud of them. I honestly don't know what more I could have done.
But it's not enough is it? There seems to be some standard of parenting that I have failed to meet. I love my children and I can appreciate that their childhood may not have met their expectations, but why has it been necessary to cut me off completely? I could understand if they needed space and moved out to get it, but I am at a complete loss as to why they have cut me off completely. It's difficult for me to not resent them for their behaviour, but I try. I send a message from time to time but I get no response. It's good and well to say give them time, but for the last 16 years all I have done is give my time to other people and I am just a little tired of giving. I feel that if this continues much longer I will have reached a point where I won't take them back, and that's not what I want.
Unfortunately, I am a new member to this group - and reading these comments there are many noticeable patterns - the majority of the children we have been "cut off" from are our adult daughters - the daughters all tell us we don't respect their "boundaries" - we have never been abusive to them or starved them, but yet they don't seem to appreciate the years of love and support we gave them. When we try to talk to them, we are either being manipulative or passive aggressive and we don't want to "listen" to them. We are only thinking of ourselves (which is rich, cause I recall 35 years of mainly only thinking of her). I can only attribute much of this behavior to social media and the "ME" generation, my daughter is 35 and can't understand why she never seems to get what she wants out of life, despite not working too hard for it and smoking pot way too much. Now she's pregnant, and albeit - it was planned - and things have not worked out with her partner and she's hastily going to get an abortion. It has been extremely ugly as I've tried to tell her she has options, she can have the baby - we will love the baby - but she won't listen - I'm not respecting her "boundaries".
I did lose it with her, maybe not the best thing to do at such a vulnerable time, but just as with everything else, she'll just give up then smoke another doobbie and wonder why she doesn't get what she wants out of life.
This forum has been a godsend and I thank you for sharing your very painful stories, to which now I add mine.
I really absorbed the '5 things' article. I think it's the best thing I've read among dozens of things I'm reading to try to make sense of the insanity . . .
I also read a lot of the comments here - about 100 - but I got really depressed -
These stories are utterly devastating. And I identify with so many & certainly all the general themes here which seem to be:
As parents (fallible humans) we make mistakes.
We often apologize to our kids for things that happened in their childhood. As well as open the door to objectively address & discuss any other issues.
We ask forgiveness.
We 'do' the basic parent stuff with & for our adult kids, eat out, help out financially if we can, visit but not overstep, seem to get along normally as adults in spite of past childhood things (which we discuss) like divorce or being poor financially as they grew up/but doing our best to make good homes
. . .
And - it seems like the more average, normal, fallible, and loving we are -
the more we are bitterly & hatefully resented & cut off. . . ????
My biggest question is just born of utter incredulity ... YET it's also a somewhat expected pattern of drama ...
My daughter is almost 29. She had a horrible dead-beat dad. He died 2 years ago. She has told me many times she resented never getting to be a 'daddy's girl.'
She's been on drugs/volatile/rebellious as a teen/got clean with my help and family. (She has mostly always worked) is a very skilled, brilliant person.
Shes lived a lesbian lifestyle since a teen. She's lived with 4 partners since she was 17, 1 male (the drug scene) and 3 women.
1 of those women was way older than her & they literally nearly killed one another drinking & fighting.
My daughter is an alcoholic (she admits this)
When she finally got ready to get out of that very abusive situation with the older woman, & my oldest daughter & I helped her financially and were emotionally supportive for a year as she managed to live on her own for that year in an apartment near her sister 1300 miles away
She has been doing reasonably well for the last 18 months.
She moved back to our hometown 8 months ago. She almost immediately started a new relationship with another woman (age 31) with the woman's family (not an ideal situation) But they finally got a cute apartment recently.
But in this 8 months, my daughter has had 3 extremely over-top, instantaneous unwarranted level of outbursts of rage towards me cussing and spewing extreme anger. (Several milder but still always unecessary outbursts) She typically apologizes with lame excuses (my period, stressed out, etc) or I apologize for being insensitive.
Either way - things get another over - until . . . the next outburst/offense/no apparent reason. Land mines.
A month ago she went to the ER -was having a heart attack w/BP over 280! (didn't tell me about it for 2 days)
7 days ago was the 3rd out-of-the-blue unwarranted rage behavior & she left the job we were working on.
That is now the longest I've ever gone not communicating with my daughter at all.
I mean we might not talk for 2 weeks - but I get a text-pic of her cat or something she cooked - or see a response on a group text with her sister.
So how can my daughter - or our kids here - just unilaterally fly off the handle, in an extreme, totally out-of-proportion fit of rage, drive away mad, and then say -
YOU! It's YOU! YOU are my problem!! Do not contact me!
And then THEY decide they simply aren't going to communicate, discuss??
My daughter has demanded and acted entitled her whole life emotionally. Very over sensitive.
Nothing I say is right. Everything I say - no matter how benign is taken as a personal attack. I'm walking on land mines around her.
I've also witnessed my daughter say many, many things that indicate she thinks in very manipulative ways - as one example:
She will get highly obsessed with a friend and talk about the friend ad-nauseum - then the friend will offend her and she cuts them off. When the friend tries to reach out my daughter says,
'SEE. I ignored the --- out of her, now she's sucking up/wants my attention.'
So it seems like thats what my daughter is doing to me now ...? Ignoring me to make me suck up???
I've contacted her twice since the day to tell her I signed up/made an appt for phone therapy, and then the day of the appt I asked if she would join the conversation.
No response.
???
Aside from the infallible perfect love of God, WHO loves your kid unconditionally like you do??
It's really - yes - gut-wrenching how swiftly your own kid can seem to literally hate you . . .
How deeply resentful they are.
How incredibly unthankful they are for so many things to be thankful for.
How unaware of reality they CHOOSE to be.
How easily they create a false narrative.
How they blame.
How overly insecure they are.
It's also really scary that it seems there's such an exponential increase in this kind of 'vulnerable' narcissist behaviour and all the alphabets created trying to describe these patterns ADD, ADHD, IED, etc etc etc
omg.
Everything you state is true to my situation as well - We ignored their bad behavior of entitlement when they were children - thinking that they'd grow out of it - but BAD on us - they didn't - and we overcompensated and took the brunt of it then are are doing it now. I think there is a problem with this generation of 80's and 90's kids/adults - they have high expectations because "every kid is a winner and gets a medal" - but they lack the motivation to actually and truly "win" - and when they don't get what they feel they should get - they get angry - at us it seems.
I think because we did so much for them, as many of us thought we were helping them, that they could not stand on their own - and they constantly feel that we should be propping them up on every decision in their life, whether we agree or not. Should we disagree, then that's when the stuff hits the fan - and we're "banned" - "cut off" - "distanced" - because those Boundaries have not been respected. I shake my head at the absurdity of it all.
Before this latest incident happened with my daughter, I'd have been beyond upset - but oddly enough I feel calm, as I've let go - I've decided that she's right, this is her life and she'll need to live it on her terms, without me, or my help.
My own mother was a raging alcoholic - and of course I tried to Save her - and I guess this is what I've been trying to do with my own daughter, Save her - but I can't - as only people can help themselves.
This is all very unfortunate that this is all coming to light at a very difficult time in her life - but if she's acted this way to me and her sister, perhaps she's acted in this way to her partner or her employer, thus they no longer have the tolerance to deal with this either - I don't know because I only hear the one side of the story.
Maybe this is her WAKE UP call, and mine too - to let go - to truly let her grow up - it may take weeks and it may take years - I will never stop loving her nor ever give up on her - but she clearly wants to make her own decisions, and it'll need to be all or nothing, because Mommy isn't going to pick up the pieces anymore.
Being estranged from my only daughter leaves me feeling as if I'm mourning the loss of a child that is still alive.
The not knowing if she'll ever reconsider and reach out,is so excruciatingly painful. She was living with me when she had my grandson. I had lost my mom a year earlier and he filled a much needed void in my life.
I sold my mom's property, the 3 of us lived in my motorhome until 9/22. Each day seemed to add pressure to our existence together.
I know living in such tight quarters caused tempers to fly on both parts. I know we both said some hateful things to each other, in which I have apologized numerous times.
She bought a house and the plan was for me to stay in my RV on her property, the months I wasn't traveling.
The day she moved in, she left me stranded with a note telling me, until I got therapy, she needed her space.Not once was there mention her getting therapy for her anger issues.
I haven't seen or talked to her in 10 months. She has completely cut me out, changed her number and told her brother's not to give it to me.
I am in group therapy and am so much better for the past 6 months. I turned the situation over to God and know whatever the outcome is, it will be in my best interest. I've accepted that some people are placed in our lives only for a season. I've also accepted, if it's meant for us to have a mother/daughter relationship, it will happen. If not, I'll survive loving her the rest of my life. I hope each one reading this gets something they can use, to make their hurt a little less painful.
We have to learn, there is life beyond estrangement. Our child may never return to us but it was their decision and not ours. God bless each of you.
Wow - I didn't realise so many others were suffering. I thought finding others out here in the vastness of cyberspace would bring me comfort but I feel even more saddened that there are so many of us. I am on both sides of mother estrangement.
My life if written in a book would not be believed and honestly I am super proud of myself for be accountable for my life, relationships and goals. We are all dealt a hand that we have no control over, we can only be responsible for our actions and reactions and to err is to be human. Search the BILL OF PERONSAL RIGHTS.
My father died by suicide when I was a toddler and my mother married 8 separate times. I have 2 siblings and we all have different fathers. and had to endure my mothers life choices until I left at 17. Even after beginning my own life I desperately craved a loving mother daughter relationship with her and turned myself inside out trying to be good enough for her to put me first. She never did. She never showed any interest in me. I finally gave up trying at 37. That was a decade ago and she never once reached out - not even when her granddaughter (my daughter) was in hospital after attempting to take her own life.
My daughter who is now 22 has taken to blame me for all her troubles. I saw her Instagram story recently regarding mother trauma (which she hid from me) and that instigated that she has been abandoned by her mother and that her mother doesn't believe she has ever done anything wrong. This couldn't be further from the truth - I have always validated her feelings and I have been following the steps above in this article and the coping strategies that I have been learning in therapy for some years now. Validation, love and support is everything I have given and continue to give but it like she just doesn't 'see me'. I have good days and bad days with dealing with this rejection and on those bad days she makes me feel like a monster. I have looked in the mirror to address any codedependacy traits that I might have, I have looked in the mirror to address everything and anything I can do to get to a place that I would love to be with her. I have looked in the mirror and taken accountability for my life and my future. I have now accepted that it is not in my power to fix her or this situation and have begun grieving the loss of this relationship. I never blamed my mother and I completely understand that everyone operates from their own level of healing but I do choose to not have her or her drama in my life, the door however is always open for my mother for a conversation, but maybe that is just too painful for her - apparently she doesn't 'chase' anyone. Those are my boundaries. The Bill of personal rights has been a gift for me whilst peeling back my life and examining my childhood through adult eyes - this is something I had spoken to my daughter about and I had a hope she might understand a little and we could build a better more honest open relationship. I feel it is easier for her just to blame her mental health issues on my dysfunctional family and not address them to improve her life, if and when she is ready I will be there to support her. For now I sit in the shadows hoping that she is working on her joy. She has concocted many lies over the past decade which are horrendous and unfathomable not just about me but also her father (we divorced when she was 4). I have a wonderful husband and a step daughter which I am very close to. This also makes me feel guilty and sad as I would love it to be the 3 of us and feel my daughter misses out on so much. My step daughter and I have found something in each other and a mutual respect for unconditional love. I have always tried my very best to the person for others that I needed and I continue to work on my inner child and on being the mother I never had. There are so many things to smile about, even when your heart feels broken don't stop your life. It will come round or it wont but you have to keep living and being the example of love whilst operating in your own lane and holding your values strong.
Love to all that experience this and wish that it was different xx
Thank you for reaching out to Empowering Parents. I can understand your distress. It's heartbreaking when the people we love treat us badly, especially when that person is the child you raised and nurtured. It can be hard to know what the best course of action is because many parents fear damaging the relationship they have with their adult child. I encourage you to go back to the support group you found so helpful in the past. If that's not an option, I would seek out other local groups that can help support you through this difficult time.
We appreciate you being part of our Empowering Parents community and wich you all the best moving forward. Take care.
My son disowned us for his wife after we took care of his 2 children- 4.5 year old and 6 month old while they vacationed for a week out of the country. The 6 month old baby was only sleeping 1-2 hours a night. We sleep trained him while they were gone and she blew up on us when we got back. Have to say my son wasn’t able to sleep at night because of panic attack due to what we now know is Lyme and his wife was severely anemic from childbirth and exhausted from being up with the baby for the last 6 months multiple times during the night.
We knew they all needed to get sleep at night and so did we. The blow up the started being a personal attack on us that we hated her and had since they got married. That there was a long list of disrespectful things we had done- none of which were ever said. His wife has a history of patterns of estranged relationships with her mother and stepfather, multiple roommates, and people at church who have made comments about her parenting. The estrangement lasts several years but eventually they speak again but there isn’t a close relationship anymore. So I suppose in the back of my mind I knew this was eventually coming for us as well.
We were uninvited to my son’s birthday. He then called my husband and told him everything he didn’t like about him and the way he raised him- ending with “I could hate you, but I still love you.” And “Thanks for all the opportunities you gave me, I don’t need you anymore!” WTH! This isn’t quitting a job!!!
They ignored us at Christmas but invited us to on grandsons first birthday. Before the party his wife send this big long email how she doesn’t like us and won’t be forced to be with us for events. My husband didn’t go he said it was way too much drama. I went and was ignored by his wife. My son talked with me briefly as I left. I did notice that not one of the people who was present a year before for the baby’s shower were at the first birthday- they all wised up and cut ties!!! So it’s been almost a year. We did continue to send Christmas gifts and birthday gifts until we go a nasty gram text saying to stop- they weren’t sending us present and they didn’t want to get them from us- we weren’t allowed to send gift to our grand kids nor even FaceTime with them. We have had no contact since the birthday then out of the blue we got a text saying they were moving out of state and an update on his health condition. He then said He had more to share with us but that we weren’t ready to hear it! My husband said if it another $hit session about all the horrible things about us as parents like the one my son did to him before -he would rather not be in his life than to have to keep enduring these “shit on us sessions” about us as parents and attacking us personally every 6 months to a year- FORGET IT.
It is frustrating because we have helped with so many things in the past and that was some how twisted into us manipulating them??? No, we did it because they are family and we wanted to help them- and most times it was them asking to help not us imposing ourselves. We have decided as long as he stays with his wife who is driving a wedge of hate between us as she has to so many other people in her life we are not going to kiss her behind. If they don’t want to be around us- stop contacting us to dump shot on us and move onto your next victim that you are going to turn against and lambaste! She had blocked me on Facebook and Instagram and has posted that the “worst week of her life would be a week vacation with the in-laws!”
Karma is real and they will have a ton coming their way after all they have dished out to us. I love the kid I used to know but feel I don’t even know who he is anymore. As long as he stays married to his wife- I don’t want To continue to be bashed by them. The silence is easier than being crapped on!!! It is such a sad situation! If you don’t like us - leave us alone!!! I get it - you don’t like us- stop with the “sharing” of how crappy we are!!! I don’t need it!!!
Both daughters estranged and going off in directions from bad decision-making/stupidity despite top-tier his and college educations. Ex-wife, their mom has no concerns.
I should have stayed single. Family is just a joke/illusory promise today. Dead inside.
We have a 32 year old son who is married & also has a 2 year old daughter. Our daughter-in-law has a germaphobe issue. She was pregnant during the hiatus of Covid which made her issues even worse. We had no idea that she had this issue until afterwards. Our son had asked us on a group text including his sister when we were going to get the shot for Covid. My daughter & I just questioned the shot which I think everyone has a right to do. Not long after that text he cut our daughter out of his life. She cried & struggled through it. She's never met her niece. Mind you my daughter has done a lot for both of them. My husband & I & my mother all got the shot. Then we were allowed to meet our granddaughter which they requested that we wear masks which we did. We also found out that our son had gone to a concert with his father-in-law during all of this Covid. Also when my husband & son went to pick up some pizzas to bring back to his house the day that we were visiting I found out later that our son didn't wear a mask when they went inside to pick the pizzas up. Every time we would visit & his wife was upstairs with the baby he would say little things to us like I didn't want to make you guys wear the masks & he would point upstairs to where his wife was. I think she has a strong hold on him & controls him. He started working from home a little while after the Covid so it was just him & his wife & then the baby came along. We've only seen our granddaughter a few times in her first year of life. I'll be honest that I did send my son a video with Dr. Malone about giving the vaccine to children. I did not force it down his throat. I just said please don't get mad at me for sending this and left it up to him on whether he would listen to it or not. My husband had also sent him a podcast video of Joe Rogan interviewing two brilliant scientists Bret Weinstein & his wife Heather Heying. We never discussed politics. The last time my husband & I spoke with our son was on his birthday January 22, 2021. Then when our granddaughter's first birthday came around in February I had sent her a keepsake gift. I was texting my son & daughter-in-law that our granddaughter should be receiving a package on such & such date. I never got a response. I called both of them and neither one responded. Then in the first week of February I tried to call his number & it was no longer a good number. I was devestated & went through a lot of depression which I still struggle with. Our daughter & son had a very normal childhood. I never would've thought that our son would cut his whole entire family out. Our daughter has a 10 year old daughter that our son hasn't seen in over 2 years. Him & his wife would take our other granddaughter & do things with her. Now nothing. I'm pretty sure that after we sent those interviews/videos that is why he know longer speaks to us which is very sad. We weren't given an explanation as to why we were all cut out. To be honest if that's what it was he could've just said hey mom & dad I don't agree with what you sent & either spoke to us about it or not. But to totally cut your whole entire family out is so wrong. He has hurt so many of us. I'm not blaming it all on him though. I think his wife has a lot more to do with this than he does. I think he's just trying to keep the peace. The sad thing is when their daughter gets older & starts to ask questions about her dad's family she'll eventually find out that she has a whole other family that would've loved to be around while she was growing up.
The other thing that bothers us is that she has contact with her family. My son & her even sold their townhome & moved back in with her parents so they could save up to buy a single home. Well that didn't last too long because the father has tried to get our son to contact us but our son just blows it off. Also with our daughter-in-laws germaphobe issue apparently before Covid hit she was seeking counseling for it but I guess after Covid hit that stopped altogether. Then they were living back with her parents & her & her father were getting into little tiffs with each other. The mother would side with the daughter. She more or less was telling them what they could & couldn't do in their own house. This didn't end up good. They only lived with her parents probably less than six months & had to look for something soon. Now they live in a single home that's in walking distance of her parents. So now it's s**t on his family. My family is more important than yours. I'm just hoping that eventually our son will come back around. I've had friends tell us to go just knock on their door. What more can you lose, their already not talking to you all. I'm very hesitant to do that though.
To Ceit and Tatty. Thank you both for acknowledging my outpouring of pain and sharing your own.
None of us deserves the punishment that has been delivered to us. We’re human and in robust relationships we speak our minds and sometimes lose the plot. I would say that my ex and my oldest daughter brought out the very worst in me, my insanity!!
With my oldest it was a constant battle over everything. Teaching her to drive was a nightmare and probably a good example of the craziest interactions. I attempted to assert my authority as the teacher and for all the safety reasons!! She agreed to this while we were stationary but as soon as the driving started and she was behind the wheel the challenging started, culminating in me screaming hysterically and her, as a learner driver yelling at me as we hurtled down the highway!!
Then the constant demands for her own car and the usual comparisons to other mothers, who were much more accommodating than I was.
It is now when I look back I realise how stressed I was with no support and trying to manage this bizarre situation that was continuous and ongoing.
We were stressed to the max and yes lashed out out at times, but just as we forgive others who genuinely express regret and remorse we have to find a way to demonstrate compassion and understanding for ourselves. For others to refuse our apologies and refuse to let us off the hook is unacceptable and demonstrates a sick need to punish and blame. To make them right and you wrong.
When I look around the world and read history and see monstrous acts perpetrated on others I think our crimes are really small potatoes.
How we recover is hard to define but I’m experiencing some now. The grief lifts and the mental obsessions and ruminations become less frequent.
Letting go of our expectations, disappointments and coming to terms with the bizarre turn our lives have taken is a huge challenge. The confusion, the questioning, the injustice all have to be processed.
I have now adopted a philosophy that strangely is helping me.
That is, I am insignificant in this world as we all are. So I don’t matter in the grand scheme of things and therefore it doesn’t matter what’s happened to me. Along with the other billions of people in the world who I don’t know anything about my daughters are now two more that I know nothing about. Their lives and what I do know now will become less over time and they will become invisible with no power to reach or touch me anymore.
I pity them that they don’t have ability to resolve conflict and that this pattern of discarding will inevitably lead to very lonely and unsatisfying lives. I was devastated when my own mother died and it took a long time to recover. To reject your mother is beyond my comprehension.
I can’t help them as much as I would if I could but I have been rendered powerless.
My oldest daughter has over the years expressed a knowledge that she reacts differently to others, but she’s locked in and I could cry for her.
She once said that her father and I should never had had children and I was shocked at the time as was the younger daughter.
Sadly now I agree with her and this will be my ongoing regret and sadness. I have to forgive myself for having chosen the wrong man as their father and that is a hard one to reconcile.
We can but walk away, put our energy into the path ahead and value what’s left to rebuild into the huge space their departure has left. 18.04.23
To Ceit and Tatty. Thank you both for acknowledging my outpouring of pain and sharing your own.
None of us deserves the punishment that has been delivered to us. We’re human and in robust relationships we speak our minds and sometimes lose the plot. I would say that my ex and my oldest daughter brought out the very worst in me, my insanity!!
With my oldest it was a constant battle over everything. Teaching her to drive was a nightmare and probably a good example of the craziest interactions. I attempted to assert my authority as the teacher and for all the safety reasons!! She agreed to this while we were stationary but as soon as the driving started and she was behind the wheel the challenging started, culminating in me screaming hysterically and her, as a learner driver yelling at me as we hurtled down the highway!!
Then the constant demands for her own car and the usual comparisons to other mothers, who were much more accommodating than I was.
It is now when I look back I realise how stressed I was with no support and trying to manage this bizarre situation that was continuous and ongoing.
We were stressed to the max and yes lashed out out at times, but just as we forgive others who genuinely express regret and remorse we have to find a way to demonstrate compassion and understanding for ourselves. For others to refuse our apologies and refuse to let us off the hook is unacceptable and demonstrates a sick need to punish and blame. To make them right and you wrong.
When I look around the world and read history and see monstrous acts perpetrated on others I think our crimes are really small potatoes.
How we recover is hard to define but I’m experiencing some now. The grief lifts and the mental obsessions and ruminations become less frequent.
Letting go of our expectations, disappointments and coming to terms with the bizarre turn our lives have taken is a huge challenge. The confusion, the questioning, the injustice all have to be processed.
I have now adopted a philosophy that strangely is helping me.
That is, I am insignificant in this world as we all are. So I don’t matter in the grand scheme of things and therefore it doesn’t matter what’s happened to me. Along with the other billions of people in the world who I don’t know anything about my daughters are now two more that I know nothing about. Their lives and what I do know now will become less over time and they will become invisible with no power to reach or touch me anymore.
I pity them that they don’t have ability to resolve conflict and that this pattern of discarding will inevitably lead to very lonely and unsatisfying lives. I was devastated when my own mother died and it took a long time to recover. To reject your mother is beyond my comprehension.
I can’t help them as much as I would if I could but I have been rendered powerless.
My oldest daughter has over the years expressed a knowledge that she reacts differently to others, but she’s locked in and I could cry for her.
She once said that her father and I should never had had children and I was shocked at the time as was the younger daughter.
Sadly now I agree with her and this will be my ongoing regret and sadness. I have to forgive myself for having chosen the wrong man as their father and that is a hard one to reconcile.
We can but walk away, put our energy into the path ahead and value what’s left to rebuild into the huge space their departure has left. 18.04.23
This forum is so valuable for parents who have been discarded by their adult children and I appreciate the opportunity to have some voice in the void of silence which often surrounds this subject.
Estranged sounds more like 2 equal parties not having contact anymore but the reality for us is that our sons and daughters have rejected and discarded us and made it clear that it’s over. The simple truth is they no longer want us in their lives. No explanation, no opportunity to work through problems or issues, no closure! That’s too much hard work. That would demonstrate respect, maturity and a willingness to resolve the conflict and more importantly improve the relationship. They don’t want that, the message is I’m done with you!!
So parents are left bewildered, traumatised, confused and heartbroken, and repeatedly asking the question, Why?? Makes no sense.
We ruminate, question ourselves, regret our actions and words. Blame ourselves, or them or the ex or the DIL.
I have done so much searching, so much examination of myself, the family, their childhoods and read about so many others experiences on this forum and many others. I’ve reached some conclusions and would love to get your feedback.
I believe it starts with the changed relationship parents now have with their children and vice versa and a loss of communities and families that held us together.
Parents like myself devote themselves to their child’s well being. We are very concerned about their education, their well-being, their health, their talents and abilities. We’re involved in everything, their sports, their interests, we know their friends, their friends families. We are continually cheering them on, supporting them, soothing their hurts, making sure they have everything we can provide and then some. We give into the demands and pestering, we want to be popular and acceptable to our children’s live.
They cost us huge amounts of money, time and effort and for the most part we give willingly.
Our children on the other hand experience from day one, receiving a never ending supply of love and resources. They absorb and shine with an A grade supply of admiration, applause at their every effort and achievement. This is the contract, we give, they receive. No chopping wood or hard labour for our precious ones, no it’s new ballet shoes, sleepovers and holidays.
Of course with the best will in the world reality intervenes and we deal with divorces and conflict and trying to balance earning money and being the best we can be. Painful and difficult decisions have to be made and life is certainly not always comfortable but we honour our responsibilities.
Our children grow up and become adults and we start pushing them into responsibilities and our expectations change. Children often react badly to this, what do you mean NO!!????
The giving now has limits and we start adapting to changes, they go to college, have jobs and partners and their own plans. We start dreaming of our future lives of course with the expectation that we have life long relationships with our children. We will continue to support them, careers, marriages and welcome grandchildren.
But they don’t always see it like that.
The contract is over, we’ve changed the terms. They look at us and see irrelevance, neediness and liability, as we age and decline.
So they look elsewhere for their A grade supply. They look at the trusty family car getting older, needing work, possible breakdowns, best get rid of it. But not until a replacement has been found, not until the new car has been acquired, enter new partnerships, new families and allegiances. They want new and different and that’s not you!!!
Of course this pattern of discarding is not what most families experience, it’s a sign of dysfunction. Discarding is justified of course when there has been abuse and neglect but on this forum we are saying we have loved and cared for our children.
Most personality disorders and mental health problems commonly emerge in early adulthood and we sometimes see behaviour in our offspring that we have never witnessed before around this time. Or we have had challenging behaviour through childhood or adolescence.
Walking out on long relationships has always happened, the sudden departure of a spouse, it seems sudden but the quiet planning has been there, the other party just didn’t know it.
I have experienced and observed the discarding behaviour from another angle as well. My ex husband and father of my now estranged 2 daughters, discarded his own family before I met him. He told me all sorts of fabricated accounts of his childhood and omitted to mention the ex wife and young son.
I could never understand his lack of contact with his very large and from what I could see absolutely lovely family. We went to his mother’s funeral in Fiji and I met the loveliest and most welcoming family. Having conversations with them I started to realise that his accounts of his childhood were grandiose and lies. Later on I discovered the existence of a young son. I pleaded with him to see him and include him but he had no interest. Later in life I found letters from a sister begging him to have contact with his family and berating him for his failure to do so. What was his reaction to all this? Rage if pushed, so you avoid that, otherwise couldn’t care less. I never once saw distress or upset about his family.
He only thought about himself, I was his money supply, looked after the kids, worked and paid the bills and he carried on with his secret life, cheating, lying and stealing.
He was a narcissist, no guilt, no remorse, no empathy for the pain and heartache he inflicted on others.
Your adult children who have turned their backs on you have a totally different experience of the situation. You are heartbroken, they don’t care. You long for a kind word, a smile some love and appreciation, they just want you to leave them alone, you no longer exist. If you push them you get rage and abuse. They keep the grandchildren away because they don’t want any attachment to form, never mind how valuable it would be for the children and you. You know too much about them and you could tell the inconvenient truth to their new families. They actually don’t and can’t love. They may seem happy with their new life but this is not the behaviour of healthy adults and I am very concerned about my daughter’s partner’s well being and shudder at the thought of them being mothers. Money trumps all of course and I notice many parents losing children to better money supplies.
7 months discarded and I’m less fragile, don’t burst into tears at the slightest remark. Try not to hurt when listening to my friends and family talking about their sons and daughters, try to stay interested and connected. I sense their awkwardness and silence.
So thanks, even if no one else reads this I’m better for getting my thoughts out there. I have read hundreds of your stories and feel so much compassion for you all, in turn it helps me hold compassion for myself and my partner.
Only one answer really. Take care of yourself, that part of your life is over.
Thank you for your thoughts! Came here looking for …. help to make sense of the unexplained drama that has now become my life. I read ao many stories of other mothers who are estranged from their daughters, and while I feel for these mothers, and understand their pain, our situations not being the same, they don’t help me with the understanding I am so desperately needing to move forward, to go on with a life - without my daughter in it.
Your comment is very helpful in helping me make some sense of this possibly! Thank you!!
Dear NomoreNZ,
I don't know if you'll ever read this but sadly I have reached the same conclusion as you. I've done all the writing,the reaching out, the crying, the beating myself up, feeling the pain of being judged,found wanting and just abandoned. You wouldn't treat a dog the way I have been treated after too many years of running after (okay, willingly), solving financial problems, providing shelter for both of my kids. I have literally been taken for a ride. That's not cynical, those days are past, but just factual. First my oldest child cut me out and took the two grandkids with them, sending me an awful letter some months later describing me as an abuser, emotionally, physically the lot. Neglect, ridicule and chiding me for'getting bolder' and being an evil & manipulative person who needs psychiatric help. I don't need to describe to anyone on here how that feels, the physical and mental anguish you experience. Disbelief that someone you love so much who you raised would gaslight you in this way. Then months later my second child kicks off apparently they have problems with me too (so it must be true...). Counselling doesn't help and the situation implodes as my heart explodes. No proper contact for 6 months and the last 7 weeks none at all at their request. I don't know this adult child who was my pride and joy. Who I never had a bad word with until now. Apparently they don't feel they have anything in common with me, I'm a source of stress and anxiety to them and I have no idea what it's been like for them as a child of divorced parents (it was 17yrs ago and silly me thought I'd got out scotfree). They'll get in touch when they feel ready.
I have travelled a long journey. Getting out of an emotionally abusive and exploitative marriage of 22yrs with a narcissist.My oldest child is a version if him and I was led a merry dance for nearly 38yrs and now I discover 17yrs and a new loving partner later, that my younger child is also self centred and totally lacking in empathy. They say love is blind.
So I too have finally decided to save myself and only have people in my life who have kindness and care as the basis for who they are. I cannot see any other way for me to move forward in peace and dignity. I am 64yrs of age and I deserve better than they are willing or able to give me. Do I love them? With all my heart but that's just not enough to save the situation.I an sad because I have to admit to myself that I have lost that unconditional love devotion & loyalty to them that was always just there. I didn't mean for it to go and I don't know exactly when it happened. They won't even notice.
Today I feel lighter somehow different from the past 7 months when things blew up with my 2 daughters 25 and 31
The occasion was their fathers death. I had supported them with his care for 3 years of his declining health and memory, even though I had left him 15 years ago. I used to joke to friends that with his memory loss he forgot how much he hated me but being a taker till till the end lapped up my nursing care.
I sat with my younger daughter and kept vigil during his end of life care, I was there to support her.
The day after my older daughter arrived from overseas they made a phone call to me which changed everything. My partner, of 15 years, they requested that she not attend our planned family gathering. The girls and their partners would be there but I was to leave her out. Very upset, emotional and overly reactive I said no and refused to attend.
From my point of view they lobbed a grenade and I pulled the pin and the whole thing exploded, injuries all round. I was blindsided to say the least and from that point I refused to help them anymore. They had everything they needed, inherited a house, had partners with good jobs and I told them to now get on with it. To me it was a reaction and I was outraged on the basis of having helped and supported them so much. I thought it was family conflict, a huge upset but repairable in time when all parties would own their part in it. This is how my family relationships have worked for my 67 years My younger daughter refused all contact with me from that moment on.
We had been so close and harmonious, she was already independent and living away from home.
When I attempted to work it out she sent me a vile text making absurd accusations about my mothering and its deficits. No neglect or abuse but incidents that clearly she and her sister had been offended by.
I was shattered and stunned by her vitriol and her declaration that she never wanted to see me again.
My older daughter has been a very difficult personality, demanding, attacking and I hadn’t realised how much damage she had been doing in the background, smearing and poisoning people against my partner of whom she had always been jealous.
I called my daughter out on her accusations and behaviour which brought forth further abuse, saying I was insane and psychotic and once again ending our relationship and punishing me forever.
I have been devastated and in emotional agony. Days in bed crying, loss and hurt like no other. I have also tried to understand and make sense of it all. Been educating myself on narcissism and all its manifestations. Their father was one and my older daughter also, but I thought the younger one was different and “saved” from this horror. I now realise I was wrong and she has behaved in text book descriptions of covert narcissism from an injury to her ego, ie. me saying NO.
Now I am estranged from my daughters and their partners who I loved. There now is now not the future I anticipated and the loss has been profound.
I have attempted to sooth the situation but my daughter has rebuffed all attempts, I too have done the apologising and gift giving with no response.
I have read so many heartbreaking accounts from parents on this forum that has both assisted my healing by realising I’m not alone but also has made me so angry. I am sorry to see so many parents desperately trying to reestablish the relationships with their adult children and being on the receiving end of so much calculated cruelty. The adult children know you’re heartbroken and yet they continue to treat their parents with contempt, abuse and assert their power to be mean.
I now want to say to my fellow suffering parents, your relationships are on life support and you are maintaining your vigil of hope of reconciliation. Even if the relationship revived it is so badly damaged that it will never fully recover and you leave yourself more vulnerable in the process. Turn off the machine and walk away. Accept the death and grieve. It will never return. I am not there yet but my goal is not to reconcile and try to make everything better as we parents always do but to achieve a state of absolute indifference to them. How dare they or anyone else treat me or you so badly. They don’t deserve my love and care and I no longer give it. I resign from the most thankless job I have ever had and hence my lightness of being today.
I was brought up by a narcissistic mother (who I cut ties with 5 years ago) and then married a narcissist for 20 years, divorced 9 years ago. Needless to say I was a mess for most of my life and have spent the last 11+ years in weekly therapy, sometimes even twice per week. I survived my emotionally, psychologically and verbally abusive marriage by focusing ALL my efforts on trying to love my children enough to get through our lives. Looking back I now see all the things I did wrong but you can't blame yourself for what you didnt know.
My two oldest daughters, who were the first to cheer when I told them I was divorcing their father, no longer speak to me. The younger of the two is at least civil when we see each other at her younger siblings school functions but I haven't see or spoken to the oldest in over 5 years. It's been very difficult trying to figure out what went wrong and why they won't speak to me. At least if there had been a big fight or something then at least it would make sense. I think the not knowing is the hardest part. I suspect that their father who they still speak to now, may have a hand in this. But there is no way to know for sure.
After finding this article and reading others I am going to try to emotionally disconnect from the situation. Because like many have said when we try to make an attempt and it's met with nothing but silence the injury becomes brand new again and it's agonizing. So my hope is that if I send birthday and Christmas cards in the same mind set as paying bills that maybe I can save myself some heartache while continuing to show that I do still care and hope to one day reconcile.
My oldest of 2 children, my only daughter stopped talking to me March 2022, but sent me a birthday greeting the month before. She has blocked me from calling her too. I don’t really know what I d it d to deserve this treatment. She told her aunt ( my sister) that I did not respect her “ boundaries “ . I’m confused and really hurt. I drive her to private school everyday, took her to prom after shopping with her. I even raised her in the church. She had the same boyfriend of 13 years and has no intentions of marrying or having babies.
What should I be doing?
I haven’t been able to see my daughter or her family for 18 months now, following a argument at a family gathering,
I have tried and have done everything I’ve been asked to, but to no end,
I miss them all desperately, and it’s now destroying our marriage, after 45 years of being together 🥲
My daughter is 29 and one year ago we found out she was addicted to meth. Over 5 years ago she moved out to Colorado to follow her dreams of hiking and living in the mountains. I supported her in these dreams as I have always wanted to travel but never felt like I could leave our home town because of family and work. I visited her twice a year and noticed from time to time she was losing weight but she always said she was busy started her new company and never had time to sit and eat.
Back up 18 years ago her father and I went through I pretty nasty divorce and I always felt like he wasn’t very supportive of my relationship with my daughter but I always pushed her to have a relationship with her father. I remarried shortly after our divorce and my daughter lived with us for 5 years at which time she moved in with her dad because in our state at the age of 15 a child can decide where they want to live. She lived with him a a short period of time then moved back in with us and the switching back and forth began. I finally put a stop to it because I felt like she would not do good in school by always switching schools. All this begin said she’s never been a fan of her step father even though it was not justified other than she felt like he got all my attention and she said she got none.
After we found out she was on drugs my ex and I were able to move her back home which was my exes house. I had retired over 6 months earlier and began selling off assets in order to start living a nomad lifestyle so I really had no place for her to stay. After she was sober she began counseling and an addiction program. After 4 months in the program and she and I had a heart to heart about my plans of traveling and she told me she wanted me to follow my dreams and travel like I always wanted. She told me she wasn’t going to stay long but did want to continue her programs for now. I made sure we were going to stay in contact with one another no matter where I was. She was in complete agreement or so I thought. Two months into my traveling and nomad lifestyle she told me she was upset that I left and she needed time to come to terms with it. I have texted her everyday for the past 7 months and she does not respond. Finally on Christmas Day she sent me a blistering text about how I have always only thought about myself and always put my husband above her and she needed time to heal and she needed for me to give her time and space to heal. I did send another text stating I would leave her alone for now but it wasn’t what I wanted but I would give her some space.
I’m so worried that she’ll never talk to me again. She’s so angry with me. I love my daughter more than she’ll ever know. All I want is for her to be ok and not revert back to the drugs so I’m now walking on egg shells. I think I really need help some days it’s almost too much to handle.
It is of some comfort to read such different, yet similar stories. For me it is almost three years since my son and daughter moving out of state with their cruel, petty, vindictive mother...never even saying goodbye. They are now 19 and almost 20. I was their custodial single dad from when they were 8 and 10 years old, when their mother skipped town to live with a new boyfriend (who later abused her).
My kids were the most wonderful anyone could imagine from birth to about ages 14-15. I read to them every night, we went on great vacations, hiked, skied, went canoeing and camping, picked fruit and made pies together, and enjoyed board games, going to the movies, theater, etc., etc. They were top students and did sports and ballet. It truly was a dream come true.
The one consistent theme is that my ex-wife always offered a way to flee to her if they were having troubles with me or with each other. She implicitly reinforced not working out problems, and encouraged just walking away from anyone that bothers you. Just like she did with me. One of the last times we spoke before the split, I apologized to her for some of the things that I know had upset her, and said that I regret those things. She thanked me for that, so I asked her if she had anything of a similar nature to say? She shook her head in thought and then finally said that she regretted that she wasn't tougher on me. In fourteen years of marriage, she was faultless and perfect.
My children are likely forever out of my life because of a handful of times where everyone involved got angry and raised their voices. That's it. No abuse, alcoholism, poverty, none of that stuff. They grew up in a scholarly home full of books, no TV blaring, music of all types playing all the time. They had excellent schools and a safe college town environment.
All three of them have contempt for me, the kids learning it from their mom. They used to get astonishingly angry at my sincere attempts to talk things through, to go to counseling...all the normal reality checks that someone does when they love and want to heal a relationship. Everything I said was viewed as an attempt to manipulate, therefore my sincere efforts were always be greeted with suspicion. Talking to either or both of them was a foray into a world of madness.
I lost everyone that mattered to me. Every day is still survival, but I begin to recognize that there is maybe a life for me still at age 59. My current plan is to finish up some of the very fulfilling work I still have as a college professor, sell my home full of memories that torment me as much as they still make me smile, and within 5 years start a completely new life, and virtually a new identity.
My kids are still be in my will but that's all. I have decided that rather than torture myself with hope, I will work hard to compartmentalize and forget. I have seen the comments here from people who haven't had contact in decades and are still trapped in sorrow.
I am practicing Buddhism, meditation, and a form of self-hypnosis to put all of the memories of their childhood and all the incredible love we all had for each other into a 'place' that I visit, happily, on occasion. I will visit my kids, my REAL kids...have a wonderful time with them, and then say goodbye...until the next time. I refuse to allow the two of them, whatever they are now, to take their former selves away from me.
In Buddhism it is said that to be nothing is enlightened and through extraordinary suffering I finally understand it. To recognize this means that you can no longer be harmed in this way. It is true humility. Only the eternal present exists, although occasional (healthy) visits to the past and future are permitted.
Many (most?) loving parents feel sorrow when their kids are grown and gone, missing all those fun, warm, loving years. But no parent gets to have all that back. This is what I look at as 'normal' sorrow, the inevitable result of loss of love...and we will all lose our loved ones eventually, unless you believe in an eternal afterlife. What is not normal is what has happened to you and I, but it is important to not confuse the sorrow of missing your young kids and and the sorrow of what has happened since. I often catch myself confusing or, worse, combining the two. So there's that.
I mentioned Buddhism, but full disclosure, it is correctly termed a 'practice.' Like anything of that type, if I slack off the practice, things get worse easily.
It sounds like your ex and mine are similar, although yours sounds more explicit, while mine is implicit, and it took me a long time to realize the effect of her vindictiveness on what use to be our family.
One counselor advised me to stop trying to contact them because it both renews my/your trauma and satisfies their misguided attitudes. You may want to consider that, but I suppose you have to be prepared to accept the consequences. I have been moving closer to accepting those consequences and rather than placing my fate at their whim, I am hoping for a new life for myself in the years that remain. We get one shot at all this, and as you well know, it goes by quickly enough...
Still as sad as I was when they cut me off 7 years ago.. both my daughters sided with their father during a difficult divorce. He made it clear the breakdown was all my fault, maybe it was. To punish me he convinced the girls I was truly evil
Everyday I think of them and only hope they are happy and safe. Struggling to think of another Christmas with no contact
I don't know where to start. My daughter and I started to have issues when she was 14. After she got hormonal, and the first covid lock down. She was nasty and sullen. Wanted to stay in her room all the time. I was struggling, but thought it was normal mom daughter stuff that would pass. Then, all of the sudden,she went to her dad's and never came back. 16 months ago. Her dad has allowed her to be in charge, see me or not, speak to me or not. He runs interference for her. She now refuses to go to therapy and acts totally indifferent about me.
I did everything for her she ever wanted and more, but because I wouldn't allow her to be nasty to me, she cut me off.
My son left me yesterday. He’s 17 and lived with my wife and I’m absolutely heartbroken, we just thought he was going through a phase but was starting to isolate himself more and more . I tried to talk to him but couldn’t get through to him. He was doing well at school with his A levels .
We noticed he was staying online for up to 16 hours chatting to friend , social
Medial and gaming .
We asked him to try and find a balance as it started affecting our relationship and his education but instead it just made things worse.
Then yesterday said he wanted to leave and go to his biological mum who has not been part of his like for many many years . I couldn’t believe he would leave us .
I’m a mess right now and in all honestly I’m grieving his not being here . I’m just a mess … I’ve just received and email from him
Saying can he have his Snapchat verification code. For him he’s just moved on as if nothing has happened and as well as being
Upset I’m angry .
I’m just in a daze and feel totally empty . His
Biological mother lives 15 miles away and I worry that he will leave the school he’s at here and go to one local there .
The school he goes to where I live is
One of the best ones in Yorkshire and where his Biological mother is it’s not a very nice place. I’m just so numb right now .
I don’t know what’s going to happen all I know is that he’s gone and we are left here.
I was in a puddle of tears when I got on the internet to distract myself and wrote my issue to find this site. Reading all the comments, all parents here devoted their lives to their kids which proves I’m right coming to the realization that the main reason to cutting ties is to prove to themselves they’re adult and can make it on their own without needing our help, and I have to mentioned getting used to taking and not giving of course. I’m new to all this . My 24 yr old son moved out only several months ago and the shock came right after, it didn’t come gradually. We were very close as his dad was never involved in his upbringing. We were one and had only each other. Cutting ties was never something I would even imagine. And although I reached that realization and figured out he might come around when he proves himself by himself in the real world, it never made me feel better. Then reading comments about the cutting ties for years is really scaring me. I already feel I’ve lost my son as I know him, and living on the hope he’ll come back around when it’s the right time. Why do rejected kids always try to get in touch with their parents, to prove themselves to them and earn their love. Always yearning for parents care, when ours are rejecting ours and hating it is beyond me and boggling my mind. Did we all make a mistake when we gave too much, when we gave ourselves and our lives?? Is that why now when they turned around and closed the door, we feel empty and that our life is completely meaningless?? Don’t they share our love because it was always there, granted, never missed, like a filthy rich person who has always had money that he doesn’t know what to do with so for him, money is worthless?? Did we do it wrong all along? I’ve always thought you receive only love when you give love!!! Will I do it any differently if I go back in time? No, but at least I’ll be a little bit prepared. He was my only friend, my only family, my world, and thought I’m his!!! I was the mother who thought that with such great communication and unconditional love, I would never be one of the mothers estranged by their own kids. We’ll always be special to each other an unbeatable team!!
I know it’s not the place to ask questions and I’m not asking, I’m just simply thinking out loud.
I have been excluded from my sons life for over 2 years. Prior to his engagement to my (now) DIL, we got along excellent. I was a teenage mom. My parents helped and raised him, but we have always had an excellent, open, honest relationship. We have talked about everything and anything and he has never had any resentment, hard feelings. I have been a fixture in his life through all of this. We may not be your typical mother/son, but we were SOLID! Once my DIL came into the picture, well, once they got engaged, that COMPLETELY changed. It isn’t so much the WHAT I did. It’s that she doesn’t approve of my choices early on. Regardless, I do feel she has influenced him. They more or less haven’t spoken to me in over two years, this time. Prior to that it was over a year. They did start speaking to me again before my first grandson was born, but my DIL wanted a meeting to set some ground rules. She did all the talking. My son just sat there. I suffer from depression and anxiety, something I never told my DIL. At the “meeting” she told me I would never be allowed to spend time alone with my grandson. I was devastated!
I’ve tried to do things their way, but feel as if I’m playing some type of game where I don’t know the rules. I care for my aging mother and anytime they come to pick her up my DIL comes to the door. I believe it is because she doesn’t want my son and I to talk. Unfortunately, I have to see them at family gatherings. It’s not unfortunate, but it is very painful. They speak to every other member of my family except for me. I have only held my grandson 3 times. He’s 2 and a half. I don’t know what to do or how to cope. My son says hello at the most. My DIL won’t speak to me or look at me.
Today my granddaughter was born. Every family member of mine was kept informed of the preGnancy and sent pictures and texts when she was born. My mother lives with me, so when my son called to tell her, I was rigHt there. It’s another level of pain haVing to hear that conversation. My mother asked him if he wanted to talk to me. He said no. More rejection. I know I will be excluded from seeing her or going to her baptism, visiting or anything. I don’t get much support from my family as they don’t really know what to do and there is quite a bit of dysfunction when it comes to communication. Im in therapy, but it doesn’t erase the pain and rejection. Sorry for the book, but I’m glad I found this site.
It’s 20 years since I have have had proper contact with my daughter. I hear about what she is up to from time to time from others and send a Christmas and birthday card every year. I never get a response.
It’s hard when I really sit and think about it. I think about her complicated teenage years and all that went on. I think about my feelings towards her now. I love her, she is my child who I brought up until she was in her mid teens, but I don’t know her now. I am not sure I would recognise her if I saw her in the street and I don’t know how I would react, she has started to feel less real somehow.
It’s devastating to realise things have got like this. It feels like it’s happened open another life or to someone else. I get on with life but her loss sits on my shoulder, creating a gap. A gap that is evident when I realise a friend doesn’t know I have a daughter or I am asked how many children I have.
I don’t know where to begin,so much chaos in my life for the past 20 years. I will try to summarize. Was married in 87’, had my 1st daughter in 88’ and 13 mos later my second daughter. In 2000 separated however he moved in to a second home I had bought only 3 doors down! 2007, divorced which was a war of the roses type. During this period, my 13 yo daughter decided she did not like the discipline in my home so she went to her fathers. He had parties galore with all the biker types vacationing there, mostly men. In the meantime my youngest daughter, was my prayers answered, dual enrolled , she graduated with honors and attending a very affluent college with acquiring a full 4 yr scholarship. My oldest daughter in the meantime got married to her h.s sweetheart and he joined the military. Had my grandson and was stationed in Hawaii. My youngest daughter graduated college with 2 bachelor degrees, as she interned on Capital Hill and was also a published member of our countries Minerva think tank for our nation at 18 yrs old. BUT THEN: she got involved with a boy from our town who got her into drugs, she had a baby who ended up in my x’s custody but was also with me in my home 3 doors down. She was in and out of jail and eventually due to no grandparents rights, was handed to the father even though he was unfit and all that? Back to my eldest daughter, while in Hawaii for 3 yrs I did visit her 3x. I thought we were getting close but she always seemed to be blaming me somehow for her upbringing? In 2014 my ex passes and his mother was able to get everything he owned and gave nothing to either of our children. Mind you there was never a day in my kids lives that I ever was without them and gave them everything, I bought 2 of everything as well but somehow I was not a good mother?? Well the time came for her to move back to her home state and her husband after 13 yrs in the military was not reinlisting so she came home and of course so did her pets and her home stuff as well as my grandson and I had them and all their things in my home for a yr or so , until she found a home to buy and her husband took a contracting job in Afghanistan for a yr. I helped her clean and paint and gut the kitchen as well as any thing else she needed, even put the tiles in the kitchen for her . Now it came the time I insisted she take her 3 cats, her rabbit and her dog as well as he belongings to her home. Xmas 2020, I had found myself shopping for presents for weeks alone, no joy! Gave them all the gifts and they all left for their home. They came back with a uhaul 2 days later got all their stuff and I haven’t heard from them since, mind you , the house they bought is in the same town about 10 minutes away. My youngest actually sent me a birthday card this yr , first time I heard from her in 7 yrs. Still issues though.
I find in the past 2 yrs and 10 mos. , I have been painting my home, in and out, getting a new roof, pressure washer washing,throwing, selling JUST LOSING MY MIND because when I stop I breakdown with such depression. So much heartache!
My 22 year old told me he never wants to see me again. I confronted him after he lied to me. It was my birthday I was driving to see my parents and asked hiim to come with. He said he was going to help move my youngest son to school instead. The next day I went to see my youngest at school to find out that my oldest never did go.
Understood he didn't want to go to see his grandparents it can be a little unbearable but they are elderly and need to keep in touch. So I confronted him that he lied and he could of just said he didn't want to go and maybe we meet for dinner at a later time. But He lied and blew off my bday. After I confronted him he said he didn't want to ever see me again. Im on a verge of a panic attack. My kids are everything to me. Its day one and I will give him his space but I can't imagine never seeing my son again. He is a bit angry guy but hes a good kid. Finishing school and works hard. I raised them well. I have been divorced from their father for 9 years. I know my son has alot of anxiety and I want to be there for him. We have been close until now. I feel like a failure
We appreciate you reaching out and sharing your story. I can hear how distressed you are with how things have been going. Your situation is a bit outside the scope of what we are able to offer coaching or advice on. I encourage you to see what types of local supports are available for you and your family.
We wish you all the best moving forward. Take care.
Our only child has been in mental health counseling for 15 years. She has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and takes daily medication for the condition. In December of last year, she cut off all contact with us for the second time.
The first time she was visiting us from out of state to introduce us to our granddaughter. She'd been here a couple of days and we were having a great time. She suddenly, without any discernable provocation, became furious, would not say why, snatched up her daughter and stormed out. We did not see her or hear from her for a year. When she did make contact, she acted as though nothing had happened and never mentioned it. We have walked on eggs for years to keep her from going off, so we just let it lie, too.
Fast forward four years ago. She returned to our state and divorced her husband. She lives 45 minutes away. I drove over often to visit her and our two grandkids. My husband even bought me a little SUV so I'd have room for our grandchildren. Our daughter went back to college, so I would go over to babysit when she had things to do. Then came Covid. My husband is nearly 80 and very fragile. I'm in my early 70s. We simply would not put ourselves at risk for an illness that had the potential to kill either one of us. The Pandemic was a game changer for us. I did still go over from time to time, but not as often as I had before, especially after the kids went back to school and were exposed to Covid more than once.
Our daughter and I talked on the phone and texted constantly. She was completely supportive and understanding of our self-imposed isolation. We got our shots and our boosters. I went over and stayed a few times.
Last December, I called just to talk, as was our habit. I could tell from her tone that something was wrong and asked if everything was OK. She said she'd been having a time with the kids because they wouldn't leave her alone to study for finals, and that she needed to apologize to them because she'd really let them have it verbally. I told her to call me when things settled down.
She called a few minutes later and immediately went on the attack, screaming at me, telling me I'd used Covid as an excuse to keep from babysitting the kids, that I'd promised I would be there for her and I wasn't. She went on and on, with me trying to get her to calm down. I finally hung up on her, gave her a few minutes and called her back. She immediately went after me again. I ended up hanging up three more times. In the end, still screaming, she said she might as well cut her losses and hung up.
I tried to rationally engage with her via text messages later on. She was horrible. Told me to f%$^ off, which was mild compared to the truly awful things she said. She sent me a long text, so full of hate I deleted it. For several months, I have continued to send her kind, loving texts. They've all gone unanswered. A month ago, her dad was diagnosed with two types of skin cancer. Hes scheduled for his first surgery next week.I texted her, asking her to respond because I had health info for her regarding her dad. Nothing. Crickets.
Her dad and I had a long talk. I told him I simply had to move on. He agreed. We've both been eaten alive with worry, not only for her, but for the kids. In addition to her mental health challenges, our daughter is also an alcoholic and has been a devoted AA member and sober for over 3 years. So our concern for her is compounded by that worry, too.
Anyway, I sent her a long text, telling her that we do and will always love her, no matter what, and that her decision to end contact with us was absolutely her prerogative and business. But I also told her that I would not be sending any further texts. I probably shouldn't have said that, but my own mental health is suffering from this so severely that I've developed a couple of serious health problems, myself. The texts I send just pull me back into the situation. I have to find a way to move on. I just don't know what to do.
Still nothing from her.
I was a teen mom and single parent. I was physically and emotionally abused by my father, and my mom did nothing, she was controlled and emotionally abused herself. I vowed to take the good from them and not use the bad and be a better parent. I thought I had succeedee when my oldest dayghter told me she had told a friend of mine that I was like a "best friend, older sister, and a mom all in one". We had a solid mother-daughter relationship, we played cideo games together, watched anime together, and I was always there for her. She was a good older sister (i married when she was 7) to her siblings.
The trouble started when I found her a job, and because she is hardworker she dedicated herself to it. She was talked down to by her boss which caused her to come hime drunk one night and basically cried on my shoulder i was devestated and told her that she could wuit her job and we would pay her bills while she looked for work or even took a break first, at this point she was 25. She refused. Then she was offered to become a manager and asked us what we thought. We told her to go for it if that was what she wanted and if it gave her less work as she could now delegate taks to others. However, she ended up not doing this and shouldering others work to make sure it all got done. We did not see this this as a possibility. Soon she wanted to move out and asked me if i needed her to stay to help with the kids as my husband was traveling for work a lot. I told her i wanted her to stay because I loved her and she was my baby, but I did not want to hinder her life and she needed to do what made her happy. She moved out on good terms.
At first she texted and called every week. So it wasn't horrible for me, plus I had another baby on the way in addition to my 3 kids with my husband so I was keeping busy. Then aalmost a year after she moved out she stopped contact. We were frightened thinking she had died or something as she wasn't returning texts or calls from us or from my mother. After texting her that her father was going to drive to her work to see if she was ok is when she sent a long text. She basically said she was stressed and in therapy and that she knew she should have responded but it was "too difficult" and she ended the text with "I would appreciate if you don't give me any grief" like what is she even talking about? I felt like that was passive attack. We had a legitimate reason to worry. She contacted us every 2 weeks and then went 3 months without a word. But I wasn't ancry I was terrified and told her that. I commended her for getting help Nd let her know I respected her being an adult and loved her and was there for her whenever she needed. Radio silence for a few months. Then my mom had an emergency i texted her she was grateful told us she loved us and contacted my mom finally.
It has now been 7 months since then and she is no longer and once again not responding to any texts or calls from me or my husband, her little 8 year old brother pleading on her answering machine, my mom, my brother, or any of her friends! My mom had anither emergency and had to have surgery and she didn't even respond to that and she always used to worry and look out for my mom! She never called her to see if she was ok or if she even died! My husbands mother had a stroke and had to be hospotalized and she didn't respond to that either. Didn't try to see the outcome of any grandparent or how we were coping! I am beyond shocked, I am mortified. This is my firstborn and I was with her almost my whole life we grew up together since ai had her at 16. I really thought she was reliable.
My mother questions if my daughter loves her now. I am ashamed, sad, and broken hearted. I have cried myself to sleep. I really balme the therapy as she was fine until she started it.
I have no idea what happened. Unlike some of the adult children who come on here, I was never accused of anything by her. I always owned my mistakes as a parent and apologized for them. So there is nothing from that end. The only thing left is 2 things she really is overworked and stressed and cant deal with anything or anyone and her therapist might have told her not to as she said she had a hard time balancing work and life(she worked like 15 hour shifts in retail). OR she is living her life in a way way she thinks we might not approve and would rather not tell us about it. And you know what? There are aome things I would not approve of, but it is her life and all I want to know is that she is alive, safe, and happy. I am not asking for anymore other than a text saying "im ok mom dont worry." And she can't even do that.
How did we get here?
May 2022
Thank you for the article. Now, I know I not alone. My 26 year old moved across the country in 2016 and everything was fine until a year ago.
I’ve not heard anything in months. I know all stories have two sides and nothing is cut and dry. But what I want to know is how do I stop this grief that I fell. My youngest is 24 and talks to me almost daily and visits several times a month, says I was the best mom.
The worst is not knowing why you were cut off, how long it will last and the worry…..I wouldn’t wish this feeling on anyone. I am in a near constant state of sadness, grief, anger and despair.
I don’t feel like I can continue with this pain, I’ve got to learn how to cope.
May 2022
Im so grateful i found this article. Im so ashamed to say tht i found comfort now i knw tht im not alone, with all you fellow travelers through this hard time .
Few days ago my teen son moved to his dad . I ve said things tht i ve shd not said in the 1st place which lead him to move .
We talked on phone , i said im sorry , he wants me to respect his decision and i did.
When i passed through his empty room i cant help but cry. I feel so broken and sad .
Im single, family arent close and i dont have anyone that i cant talk to . i push myself to function so i cant at least have a little moment to pull myself out of my sadness and grieve . The pain is real , the loss is real .
I live in Taiwan . Im sorry for my english since its not my 1st language.
01/16/2024
It DOES hurt so much… SO MUCH!
Thank you for sharing your story. I relate and empathize completely. You are not alone, my friend ❤️
My 24-year-old son has cut off all communication for the past 2 months. He and his wife had a beautiful baby girl in December. Then Just a few days before my son's birthday at the end of February, he cut off all communication with me and blocked me from all social media platforms and his phone numbers.
And all I know is that he sent me a long text explaining how I ignore his boundaries, his wife tells me that it was sent and she will get me a copy of it. All I know is that I did not receive this text that he is talking about.
I need your help on this, please, because::
I made the biggest mistake I told him that he and his wife having a child, a beautiful baby girl, gives me a chance to have a "re-do" or "do-over" so I can show him that I am not, nor was I ever, that bad mother everyone makes me out to be.
These two words: "re-do" or "do-over"
is not what I meant to say. because of several medications that I take, I do have a hard time expressing what I want to say without having time to think it all the way out first.
So what I really wanted to say is that "I would get to travel back in time, "rewind time" with all the sentimental loving, singing, rocking, feeding, and playing with her that I did with my son, so that I could re-live all the good parts of my son, good memories, the sentimental memories, all the great parts of my son and learn about all the great parts of his wife and her daughter.
My daughter-in-law had mentioned in a text yesterday that my granddaughter is not a novelty to be passed around. I am not sure what that means.
Except maybe she means for me to not just come and go and never come back??
My 27 year old son just recently cut us off. It was so sudden we didn’t see it coming. I was a single mother till my son was 14 yrs old. I left India with a 3 yr old , surviving domestic violence from mentally ill ex and family. Let everything go and started all over from zero in Australia. My family ostracized me for my decisions as it was a shame as per my culture. I met my husband in Australia 13 yrs ago. My son & him got along so well. We had a perfect family. My son left to do University in 2013, we supported him, after 30k out of pocket he dropped out. We accepted his decisions, worked in a club, met a girlfriend who was with him for 4 yrs. She warmed towards us. My son went back to do engineering, started a business, was slowly picking up his life when she broke up with him in 2020. Our son took it so hard almost had a nervous breakdown we brought him home. He was a changed man. He was disrespectful to us , everything was business transaction and he wanted to me to leave my husband. One day he became agresssive in Nov & we asked him to leave. He had completely cut us off. All venues to contact him, reach out to him has failed.
27 years this child was my priority. Each time he messed up i held him close & helped him out, later my husband was a perfect father figure to him. We are so much at loss that he had nothing to do with us.
I am so unable to handle the grief & pain. Struggling to cope with it. It is the first time I felt comfortable to express the feelings on a public forum. I am thankful for finding this page and sad but empowering that we are fellow travelers in these difficult times. Thankyou for your kindness and support
I have a daughter that’s 29,married with a child 5 years old.I miss them both so much.I haven’t seen my daughter&grandaughter in about a year.I’m new to this,and how do parents cope with not seeing their children?This is heart breaking,this is all because they wanted to move in with me and I said no.I would of said yes if it was just my daughter&grandaughter.Its a very long story,so she won’t talk to me because of this.I don’t know why she can’t move on and stop dwelling about this.It’s not her though,it’s my son-in-law,he won’t let her see me because of this.He wrecks relationships around him,he did this to his family.He’s very vindictive& controlling,not a nice person at all.
My mom has tried to talk to her but she won’t listen to her,she misses them too.
It’s very hard to live with this day by day,how do you cope with this.
THank you for reaching out to Empowering Parents. I'm so sorry you are going through this. I can only imagine how heartbreaking it would be. There is a resource in the UK that may be able to help: https://www.familylives.org.uk/
I hope this helps. Be sure to check back and let us know how things are going. Take care.
Dear Leslie,
The first thing I can say thst your son is perfectly ok. His behaviour is not due to a mental problem as a physical desease, rather it is a desease or disorder of his internal and external world.
In group dynamics we learn that when the group is joined or left by a member, the dynamics of the whole group changes immediately. So it dif in the worlds of your son.
Your new wife is natural to yoyr workds and alien to the worlds of your son, especially if you wanted your son to taje these important changes for granted, or even expected your son to lime your new wife.
8f you care for your son write him a letter where you can explain his importance to you, that he is irreplacable, and thst you want everyone to win in the new group. Listen to your son's feelings. Do not take him for granted.
The change in the group also forced yor son to fall out of extended family as well, because his entire picture of tbe family has changed. Yoy with your new wife is a new element to tbe group, which is painful for your son.
Tell him he is important. Tell him you love him. Tell him he can be your first priority as the case may be, that your new wife is not your first priority all the time. Also please invite your grandchild to spend time with you. Spend some time with your son without your new wife. Good luck!
I have always had a great relationship with my oldest son.things started to change after he got out 9r the army.
He has PTSD and got counseling and help. However he doesn't want anything to do with menow. We have different ideas about life.
I hope and pray someday he will come around. All I can do iss get on with my life. I am very close with my other kids and family.
Two of my adult children have me 100% on block. One is my daughter who abandoned my grandson with his dad during the pandemic... at first not intentionally, just so she could financially get back on her feet. She did. And he wouldn't let my grandson go back with her. She was intimidated, but apparently her new boyfriend didn't want him. Ultimately, she wanted to move home at 25. I said, fine, but she had to respect house rules. New boyfriend guilted her to move back out of state. I haven't heard from her since. Nor has my grandson's father. I have no contact with her. I send her a text weekly. My ex- husband, abusive - angry man, whom I reached out to in desperation gas lighted me, saying yes, she keeps in touch with him because she loves him and doesn't trust me. At least I know she is ok.
My other child left because I wouldn't allow politics to be discussed in my home. He was very radical in his beliefs to the point of it scaring me. He left without a trace last October. Again, my ex-husband says the same thing... you won't hear from him.
My youngest (22) is stymied. I am not abusive. I basically raised them with my significant other. During the separation and divorce from my ex YEARS ago, he would forget to pick them up, pay support, etc... they witnessed him smack me around, etc.. They had their needs more than met. I created a successful career, stable home, best that I could...
I was tough on my daughter when she had my grandson because there were a slew of lies, and she made some really bad decisions. When I found her working at a house of ill repute, I forbade her from doing so, but allowed her to live with me freely... but she packed up and left to her dads. (He has since moved to another state also). Every time I tried to enforce house rules, she would run to daddy. This was always a pattern with her.
My son... no clue, he was fine. No arguments other than not wanting to discuss politics so that we could have a mutual respect without confrontation.
I suspect my ex husband has a part of this... but it still hurts me very deeply. I miss my children. I am ultimately alone now other than my significant other and my youngest son. My parents are gone. I have no extended family nearby.
They clearly hate me for some reason. If i knew why, perhaps I could understand. But I do not.
My youngest is flying to see his dad in a couple of months and i fear more than anything that he won't return either.
I am so sorry for your loss. I can only imagine how devastating this must be. especially not having the support of your children. It may be helpful to see what types of local supports are available. If you are located within the US or Canada, the 211 National Helpline is a referral service available 24 hours a day, nationwide. They can give you information on the types of support services available in your area such as counselors, therapists, support groups/kinship services as well as various other resources. You can reach the Helpline by calling 1-800-273-6222 or by logging onto 211.org (211.ca in Canada).
We appreciate you reaching out and wish you all the best moving forward. Take care.
I stumbled on this site while searching for anything about why children cut (let’s be honest -abandon) their parents out of their live & I feel so fortunate. My 70 yr old husband (I’m 65) & I are distraught after getting her first text since June. It’s difficult to describe how this happened because it’s so unbelievable. Sara is 39. Her Dad & I married w/3 little boys between us (me-1, him-3). We couldn’t wait to have Sara. Because she’s a girl & 7 yrs after the last child, she got a lot of special “everything”. As she grew so did our financial stability & prosperity. She benefited from that 80% more than her 3 half brothers in almost every way. She was our baby girl. We really tried hard to compensate by being very doting grandparents to all our grandchildren. So there’s that.
In June, my husband had a small stroke. It was time to move closer to one of the kids. #1’s mother told him this wasn’t his dad 🙄, so we finally cut ties 10 yrs ago. #2 (same mom as ⬆️) said come here, I have a whole tribe ready & wanting to help “ya’ll 💕. #3 my son disowned us last Mother’s Day. I have ZERO clue why. 🙁#4 Sara said you need to come here & buy a condo. 😑.
When we told Sara we were moving to her brother’s area (1/2 the distance to visit her), she got so angry. So ugly. I blocked her. Her dad didn’t. Today we get the text in which she calls me by my first name & said she was cutting ties because we were so toxic to her, her entire life. Devastating. But final. I guess.
I am so sorry you are experiencing estrangement from your daughter. I can only imagine how difficult that must be. It may be helpful to see what types of local supports are available to help you through this very difficult time. If you are in the US or Canada, the 211 National Helpline is a referral service available 24 hours a day, nationwide. They can give you information on the types of support services available in your area such as counselors, therapists, support groups/kinship services as well as various other resources. You can reach the Helpline by calling 1-800-273-6222 or by logging onto 211.org (211.ca in Canada.).
We appreciate you sharing your story and wish you all the best moving forward. Take care.
my ED talks about her therapist and how she is learning about "boundaries....and why I need to respect them.
Interesting.
Where were those boundaries when she announced she and BoyFriend were moving in with us? where were the boundaries when they needed money, or to borrow our car constantly?
I'm so sorry. It is awful, but you are not alone. There is a book "Sidelined by your adult children?"
It saved my sanity. Keep reading, keep loving yourself.
Since my 26-year-old daughter has met her boyfriend almost one year ago, she has been distant towards me. She has only connected with me on special occasions. She had surgery one month ago and when I call her she does not pick up. Only replies when I text. Says she has not been feeling well but will not always reply to my texts. Could someone give me advice?
I can not sleep nights and feel very down about her distancing herself from me.
I would say that you are right to not be accepting of his choice to leave his family. I was told once that infidelity is similar to death - meaning once your son chose infidelity over his wife and 2 children he chose to end that relationship which in turn forces you to have to chose how you will carry on your relationship with your son and his ex wife and two children (your grand children).
I would set strong boundaries for your relationship with your son while trying to maintain a healthy supporting relationship with your grandchildren and their mother.
I am so thankful to find this site. My story :
I have a 30 year old daughter who has slowly become estranged. In my opinion I’ve been and loving and supportive throughout her life and I’ve been searching for answers as to why this is occurring. She admitted several years ago that she was gay. I thought that caused the prior distancing on her part. Maybe I tried to hard to keep us close . She slowly drifted. Then most recently she admitted to a drinking problem. I again was supportive and tried to remain close. She rarely opens up as much as I try. I’ve cried, yelled hugged her sat in on meetings, nothing appears to work. She says she needs boundaries from me, but yet won’t explain what I’ve done. I am so heartbroken by this. She was my gift ,I was told that my chances of getting pregnant from my (2nd) husband were slim to none. I was thrilled beyond belief when I had a daughter. I cannot understand her behavior at all. I come from a very close knit Italian family and she has become a stranger to them. It appears she cares more about her friends and coworkers.
2021-07-19 is there anyway to know if I am posting comments on a page with recent visitors or 5 years old? I see Shelley, Hope and Carole… or anybody else. There is a Mrs Grace who says « Hurting souls with broken hearts need validation and comfort coming from others who have been down the same path… » I would love to exchange with.
I do agree with many who mention that the subject is taboo and that support groups are rare. I am here even though English is a second language for me because I have not seen a single page in French where mothers can say what is being said here.
I am estranged from my 52 years old daughter for the last 10 years. For 43 years, we were in the best of terms, vacationing together, I helped her in all her important steps in life including college, buying a house when she was in her thirties etc. Having been motherless at 7, with a childhood of total neglect, I did care not to repeat the pattern. I thought, and a few others too, that I had done a pretty good job, until :
I am the one who flee the verbal abuse, agressivity, the roller coaster of a toxic relation she clang to. She would call sounding like on the verge of suicide, make me run day or night, until I was sick with worry, frustration, powerlessness, rejection. She would be out partying with the man 3 days later. I got the feeling that I was the crutch helping her to say with a man that any decent family would be ashamed or terrified to have in the family. But, she insisted on calling him « the one love of my life » . A few months after I had announced that I didn’t want to be called for help in those couple dramas, if she chose to stay (not even married) with him, she started being very rude, very money minded, very abusive verbally. « Mind your own business » had become her usual answer to « how do you do? ». Trying to tell her that she needed serious professionnal help was the worst insult I could utter. She did throw him out quite a few times to take him back a few weeks later and keep the damage deepening.
I openly told my daughter that I did not want to see her anymore unless she came with a version of the crisis that didn’t paint me as the source of all her woes and that there has been some events and words that ask for another kind of treatment than « sweeping under the carpet ». So, I am openly the abuser, the one who closed the door, and she the victim who doesn’t understand why. It hurts a lot, everyday, but the few times she calls, once every 2 years, at midnight and for 3 hours, it’s to tell me she doesn’t read what I write to her and that she doesn’t understand… what I have made more than clear. If at 52 she doesn’t have the maturity, the emotional intelligence, the minimal dose of respect or gratitude for a mother who gave all she could, it is hopeless and I know it too well. Some notions of love and freedom that include the right to abuse, to hurt, would need serious examination. This is a very short version of the events, the clearest I can spell about the essential of the situation. I have little family left, one sister I love, almost 80, in good health, and sitting on a type of neutrality that is a bit challenging for my nerves. She definitely prefers not to hear about the story.
Often, if your child is empathetic he/she may be in a relationship with a very controlling, manipulative and lying person. This type of person often turns their partner against families and friends to isolate and continue to abuse them. They basically brainwash them and weaken their ability to fight for themself through tactics such as gaslighting.
This appears to be the situation with my daughter, my only child. She met her husband at college and hasn't been the same since. She used to be kind and very encouraging to friends and family. She would light up a room. She and I got along well and she would call me a tell me what's going on in her life. More and more overtime she would complain about everyone, stop visiting friends, and snap at me about little things. This increased more and more over about 5 years, and the whole time I could see her boyfriend stirring the pot and planting seeds. He said he was a terror as a child, he stated he doesn't like people, he "can't" cry, and I can tell he has a lot of rage inside. (You know what this all describes.) I've witnessed the gaslighting and the lying. He lies to me with no conscience. I think my daughter walks on eggshells around him and so does their 3-year-old son. I hate it for them. He seems to have her confused and afraid, and I can't get to her to just give her a hug. She rarely calls and she doesn't visit.
I guess it's true that the best thing to do is to pray for their peace and safety, and take care of yourself. If you believe in a higher power, then you should trust your prayers. (I keep telling myself that.)
I was estranged of and on from my abusive and alcoholic mother up until her death. I raised two wonderful sons with no issues in sight - never imagining I would one day be here, looking for advice. My eldest is now 22 and think we are also now estranged. This article is probably dead on, regarding entanglement and his inability to deal with his emotions. I am very angry and hurt by his behavior and my own upbringing makes me want to push back and keep that door shut all while crying on the other side. I sacrificed everything for him, especially him, and he takes and takes and takes. Having a partner that helped me see that clearly helps, but it certainly doesn’t help with the pain of not hearing from your first born.
As for giving gifts or small notes, if you visit the subreddit for children who have cut off their parents, they despise their parents for continuing to reach out. So, either they are lying in their posts and secretly like it, or it’s not a good move.
I haven’t showered in 7 straight days and I have terrible dreams that all have to do with him being in peril. I think it’s time for me to get some therapy. Not to mention my partner has no idea what to say or how to help me.
For some parents of estranged adult children, trying to have some kind of connection with the estranged child, is the right thing. But there are others like my wife and I who have been issued an ultimatum to not under any circumstances, try to contact our son and his wife. They have threatened to sue us for harassment if we ever try to make contact. My son in his teenage years was nothing but trouble. We spent a fortune on lawyers, counselors, psychiatrists, but to no avail. I had to kick him out of the house because he posed a threat. At some point he came to his senses in his 20’s and married a woman twice his age with 2 grown children.
At one point they were destitute and we took them in to help them. They wound up staying for 2 years. We basically paid for everything.
We went through our entire savings and were wiped out financially. After they got a place of their own, both of them started to accuse my wife of doing all kinds of awful things to them and spoke to her in a disgusting manner.
My son said that he still wanted a relationship with me. I told him that his Mom and I are a team. If they were going to disconnect from her, then they’ll have to disconnect from me. That was 5 years ago. There was one nasty phone call attacking my wife again and I hung up. His behavior did not surprise me in the least. There are just some people who are bad seeds. Some people are hateful people. Some people are evil. I knew since my son was a teenager that he was an evil person. It took Mom a lot longer to cut the apron strings. After what they put my wife through, I have absolutely no affection for my son. I have nothing but disdain and contempt for him and his wife. Since they don’t want any contact, We are abiding by their demands.Thankfully my wife has recovered from the trauma.
I know this might sound awful to some people. But I have ZERO love for my child.
I wish him no harm. I am practicing compassion meditation in order to mitigate resent on my part. At the very least I have learned to not have any guilt or remorse.
But I don’t respect him, I don’t like him and I certainly don’t love him. And I’m perfectly okay with that. And I feel that if there is no chance of reconciling, it’s okay to stop trying and get on with ones Life. It’s okay to reject the societal expectation to never give up. Not every child is worth it. If it’s done, it’s done. Do not feel any shame or guilt if you don’t love your kid. It’s more important to love oneself and ones spouse.
As I read everybody’s stories my heart aches because I know the pain too well.
My son is 24 and was an amazing kid growing up. We never had to punish him. He was a great student with tons of friends and a fantastic home life, we were very close to him.
When he met his girlfriend (only and current girlfriend) and they started dating we excepted her and fell in love with her too. She was having what seemed like maybe some issues with school in another town and so we decided to let her move into our home to help her out. Things were fine at first until I discovered she came into my personal space on several occasions while I was away at work and stole some makeup from me. If she would have asked me for them I would have just given them to her or bought her some. We did everything for her, let her stay in our home rent free, she didn’t work, my husband replaced all four tires on her vehicle, worked on her car etc.
I confronted her about the makeup and she lied about it. I was hoping so badly that she would just apologize and we could get past it, but it only got worse from there. She left that night and went to a friends house. She called from the friends house and told me that she took the makeup. When I told my son she admitted to taking the makeup he got very upset, I could see it hurt him that she lied to him, and that hurt me. I let her come back to our home because in a way I felt sorry for her and I loved her because my son loved her.
The next day she was so happy and cheerful and acted like nothing happened. I thought, boy she gets over things fast. After that things stayed very, very awkward in the home up until my son moved away to college which is when he decides to tell me that she really didn’t take the makeup and the only reason she said she did was to try and calm the situation. I was in shock!! I had proof she took it. I know it’s just makeup, that’s not the problem. The problem is, that she came into our home and stole and then lied about it, said she took it, and then lied again. She was deceiving my son and he couldn’t see it.
My son has been gone since August 2019 and I haven’t seen him since. We barely talk on the phone. I found out several times he was back in our town visiting his sisters and her family and never came by to see us. When I asked him why he said we aren’t ready for that. I feel I’ve lost him. It hurts so bad. I sit and cry a lot. I’ve become depressed over this. I know this seems childish, but I feel she is deliberately pulling him away from us, encouraging him not to speak to us. I just want to scream because I now believe he believes I was lying about the whole stealing incident.
I am literally driving myself insane. Every time the phone rings I think it might be him, every text I hear I jump, every knock at the door. It’s no fun living your life hanging by a thread waiting just waiting to see if every little noise you hear might be them trying to contact you.
Thank you for taking the time to read my story.
I wish you all the best.
My Daughter turned 22and decided to move out of state with her Aunt & Uncle.
The more time that passed, the more distant she was. Now she has cut her Dad and I off completely. I have emailed, send letters, cards... With no response. She changed her phone number and we are not allowed to have it.
She wants nothing to do with us.
The family members she lives with support her in her decision to stop all communication with us. I believe they are partly to blame for her distancing herself.
I hear she has eloped recently and my husband and I are terribly upset. She is two months from graduating nursing school. We hope she doesn't throw all her hard work and effort away.
We are so lost about what led to her leaving in the first place. It has been a year now since we have spoken to her.
I will continue to reach out. I will never give up. I'm hoping one day she will want to see us again. I still cry most days, in & off.
I just can't help it. She is my only daughter and my youngest child of three.
She dosent talk to my younger son and only speaks to my oldest son every know and then.
She has cut the rest of the family off also.
She has offered her phone number to my husband but only under the conditions that he not share it with me. He refused to that agreement so she cut him out. I don't know what else to do. I'm so sad that she has to be this way and not give us any reason why.
Our relationship was rocky in her late teens but since moving away, it had gotten extremely aweful.
I only hope she will reach out sometime.
I am here hurting with you.
I have an adult daughter who I miss so much. Our relationship changed when she was in her teens. Was up and down for awhile. But at a certain point, I told how her how I feel when she does things and says things that hurt me. We argued terribly. And I even said things I should not have said. I see her and my grandchildren once or twice year. She doesn't respond to texts or calls. I keep wondering if I should just give up and stay out of her life. Maybe that would help her and make her happy. I have apologized for the things I've said & done but it doesn't seem to matter. I pray about it everyday. I give gifts And cards but she doesn't say anything. And hopefully one day her heart will feel different. I go to God for advice. He told me "love never fails" love holds no records of wrong" love is patient" love is kind". Its easy to love someone when they love you back. But it takes genuine love to love the unlovable because it is painful.. It is hard and it is painful. Just like when Jesus went to the cross for all of us when He was being torchered, mocked, laughed at & spit on. Don't give up. God sees all. In order to be forgiven, we have to forgive. That is something we can teach our adult child by our example.
I know it hurts. Believe me I know. Keep praying and never lose hope. Xo
My word, 856 comments. How sad is this, that so many parents are going through this. My eldest Son hasn’t spoken to me, called, nor texted for four years now. To say my heart is broken doesn’t even describe my pain. Some days it takes everything I have to get out of bed.
Me and his Dad divorced after 30 years of marriage. I was miserable! My son was very angry that I left. He said he was blindsided by it and how did he not know anything about it. Well, he rarely came around!!!!! He got angry that I was “honest” with him.
I know we are not supposed to get angry at our adult children. But let me tell you. The first years, I cried every day. The third I reached out constantly to him. Still nothing. He got married. That killed me. Now, well.....I’m angry. I’m tired of begging and pleading. I’m not asking forgiveness for moving on with my life! I deserve to be happy too.
I’m sorry but we’ve raised a bunch of spoiled rotten brats that only think about themselves! Unless they were abused, physically or mentally they need to put on their grown panties and talk to us parents and work it out. EVERYTHING can be negotiated and EVERYTHING can be worked out if talked about sensibly and calmly. But it takes BOTH parties to be adults!!!!
Sorry for the rant. But I sure feel better now! ☺️😂😅
Very interesting comments. I am struggling with the two extremes:
1) Send the child who has cut you off occasional text messages, holiday gifts etc.
OR
2) Do not initiate any contact. They have chosen to cut you out. Leave them alone.
Not sure which is best way to work on getting contact again.
First, thank you to the author who generously shares her insights and to all the parents and adult children who comment here to support each other and allow others to read. Came across this article as so many have, just turning to the internet for some answers to fill in the sad and confusing wait time until my 24 year old daughter checks back in. You may laugh but it has only been a day and a half. And yet of course it is not the first time and is a sad pattern since she was 16 that I have always thought she would grow out of with a combination of maturity and from feeling more stability in her life. This time it was the way she left back to the city where she lives just two hours away that scares me.
It was what she said.
We had had a visit at home for a day and a half and we had just had a fun day together with lots of laughs and conversation. I know I slipped and made some poorly articulated responses to a couple things but I would explain I hadn’t expressed my thought well right away when she would be sensitive to it and I do sometimes speak too fast and come out with the wrong words. I walk on egg shells on the topic of her career. What happened was that suddenly in the car on the way to go home to collect her things for her bus ride back to her apartment which is just two hours from home, I innocently started asking if she wanted to stop for coffee. But I tend to tip toe because I knew she as in an anxious mood as she was headed back so I acted goofy and introduced my question with “may I ask you something?” She snapped at me and said “NO! I’m not answering any questions!” And I quickly told her it was about coffee and made light of it but she remained angry. Then we arrived home and as we were getting ready to drive to the bus I pressed her as to why she was so mad. She suddenly shouted that she had had her limit with the time she could spend with me also listening to the “little dumb remarks” I make and how she couldn’t take it anymore. And then said she had had enough of our trying to be like we are “best friends” and that I am her mom. This came completely out of the blue. I was so shocked and sad. We hadn’t had any bad feelings during our happy day. I’m very attuned to our relationship and this wasn’t a day that seems like it was in decline at all. I know she was having her period. I know she can be moody She can turn on a dime sometimes but these remarks to me this time really really hurt. It’s so confusing to me and I feel like I don’t know when she started just putting up with me that day. It made me wonder if I was being patronized for the last hour or maybe two? I feel like a fool. I have enough low level self esteem issues that her acceptance means a lot to me I will admit. I admire her for many reasons based on her hard work growing up and adore her and she knows it. I don’t understand how she doesn’t realize how hurtful what she said was. She can be very cold when she is angry. Yet she is an empathetic thoughtful girl. I feel like I can’t trust the next time we have our fun outings. I hadn’t even asked her or begged her to be with me as I try not to be annoying. Even though “annoying” is a word she calls me often. At the same time she is grateful I know and shows me love and says in touch very regularly.
It was a mutual decision to go out together and do a little shopping. I bought her a lipstick she needed. I just feel horrible because we do share a similar outlook on the world when we’re together and have the same tastes and laugh so much, have such a history of understanding as a mother does... I should give a background here as I already partly know how this will be explained. Yet despite our history it is wrenching to me to wonder if she sees me as an old weird pest now and if I am actually so blind to it, despite all the fun times we have together. It’s scary and makes me so sad.
We see each other often and many would probably say that I am entangled with her emotionally/enmeshed because of the intense career she chose to train for beginning at the age of three and with her own drive continued through young adulthood, a similar training to what an Olympian athlete goes through. Because of the difficult and unforgiving training and ultimately controlled and ultimately cruel professional context that is this career where the student lands once the low percentage who do succeed in achieving their dream, parents have become pretty enmeshed in trying to be the emotional and financial support and they have taken this journey parallel running alongside with their child for years. There have been physical injuries requiring support as well as emotional roller coasters and her natural resilience tested. There were gaps where she was recovering from injury and sat in a dark place with depression for a few months but came out each time and holds her head high. She has travelled the world during her brief professional career and lives as a product of its inevitable tiny niche of specialized experience. And because the niche is small her true emotional support is very limited with many peers having no concept of what her life has been like She is trying to make a transition to a new field and return to school and has been accepted to a wonderful program, though still can’t see if the outcome from it will give her stability. She is financially still mostly dependent on my husband and I and we do not resent it and are supportive as she tries to do what she can with the skills she has for jobs while pursuing school. Therefore I’m sure her lack of self esteem continues and with that comes resentment and wanting to not be reminded of her dependence by being with me.
Nevertheless whether obvious reasons or not as to why this has happened, I love her and want to feel loved back and I also worry that I have because of concerns for her me tal health and regular forgiveness somehow enabled and normalized her behavior. There have been many instances over the years where she turns on me this way. I am worried she will think it’s fine to treat others the same and it will backfire and she won’t know why they don’t trust her. I am so confused. Sorry for rambling. Ultimately we just want to know we didn’t screw up our own kids.
To all the estranged children on here, you'll never understand all of estrangement until YOU are the parent and your adult child is disconnecting or cut ties completely with you. I get a lot of bad stuff happened with your parents. I saw my grandmother move in and out of our house and cuss out my mother each time she did. My grandmother would then run off with my uncle who would spend every dime my grandmother saved by living on my parents. When my grandmother was broke again, my uncle would pack her up and send her broke butt back to my mother and father to build up her bank account again.
My mother in turn had her children cuss her, deny her seeing the grandchildren and trashed her verbally in our small town. They sure didn't hate or crap on her when they needed money or drugs. When they got their way, be it financially or emotionally, they let her see the grandkids, visited and acted like mature adults.
I am going through estrangement with my daughter. She gave me the silent treatment and disrespected me until I exploded with anger. She lived with me until she was 24 RENT, UTILITIES AND FOOD FREE for 4.5 years. I paid for her 3 cell phones and she would still tell me to give her mine. I paid for her and my granddaughter's gas for school also.
I made the mistake of letting her boyfriend move in, who btw got kicked out for not paying rent with his roommate. He brought a gun in my house WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE OR PERMISSION. He refused to lock the doors on my house (one of my 3 rules I gave them) but locked his car up in my yard. My granddaughter, who I have supported from birth, has autism and I specifically said I never wanted guns in my house due to her issues. I told them to move out when I found out they were making 1500 dollars more than me a month...letting me foot all their bills and needs so they could buy whatever they want. Pretty nice of me, huh? After all the silent treatment and financial abuse, I exploded. She hasn't talked to me since the 1st of August and I haven't seen her or my granddaughter since the 1st of October. I miss them both but I definitely feel relief both emotionally and financially since they left. I didn't realize how much my daughter was abusing my wallet until I, on average, had about 800 dollars more a month. I have very poor boundaries with money and people I love.
So, don't demand that the author, who is more qualified in understanding estrangement than any of us on here, change what she stated just because it doesn't apply to your situation. No one's story is the same. And you'll more than likely experience the other side estrangement, no matter how good of a parent you are.
You may be right that the cards are not being accepted. But when one has apologized and then sends their love, there is no wrong there. The love is there for the taking. That is all.
The other does not forgive. And so does not feel that wonderful weight lifted off of them. Love is freeing. Love heals all.
By giving loving, you can do no wrong.
Hello,
I am so grateful to have found this site. For a moment, I began to question my status as a mother. I have a 31 year old daughter from a previous marriage. I’m shaking my head as I write this. I still can’t believe I’m here.
In as much of a nutshell as possible, I was active duty in the Navy when her father and I divorced. Because I was on sea duty, physical custody was given to him. I was deploying. It wasn’t long before she realized she can play one parent against the other. He would give her anything in the beginning so she would want to stay with him.
I recall my visitation, driving two hours from San Diego to an empty house. I’d wait for hours. Call, only to get his voicemail. He’d finally show up with her late in the evening. After a two hour drive back, you could say my first day of visitation was shot. This keep away game went on for years until finally I requested the court mandate a neutral pick up and drop off point. They did. It was the Sheriff station, blocks from the house.
There was finally a third party that could document if she was not there when I was to pick her up. To document when I dropped her off and he wasn’t there. One of his favorite things to do was hand me wait until he finished a swing shift at 11:30 pm. Sitting in my car or Denny’s with our daughter for hours. I still had to commute two hours back to San Diego.
Due to the intervention of the Sheriff Dept, things got old. The immediate thrill of abusing my time was no longer. He began placing boundaries on this child who was spoiled and out of control. She would call, crying, begging to live with me. Please mommy, please. Three times, in total, I would have the attorney file papers requesting a change of physical custody. Each time she would appear in court and say, I want to stay with my dad. Each time stung more than the last.
I met someone, remarried and had two amazing sons. They filled that painful void in my soul with a joy o haven’t felt in years. Fast forward to today. December 2018, she was arrested for a DUI. Her bond was $220,000. I thought she hit and injured someone.
No! Turns out it was her second DUI at 30 years of age. Unpaid traffic tickets up and down Los Angeles county. She spent two weeks in jail, being transferred from one to the next. After a year of fines, community service, I had the bright idea thinking a change of venue would help her get her act together. She was living with her father all her adult life.
She enrolled in college part-time. Found a part-time job. Things appeared great. Not three weeks after moving in, she began coming home between 2-3 am pissy drunk. Lying, giving the silent treatment to her two brothers and myself. I didn’t notice at first but she began a passive aggressive behavior of gaslighting.
It was little things. Knocking over my toothbrush in its holder, knocking over personal things on my dresser, putting her soaking wet wash cloth on top my dry towel after her shower. I’d call her on every event. The tension was building. I began to see she was doing these things deliberately to push my buttons. It continued over a month. During the summer in Las Vegas, I have the thermostat set to cool at 73•, to return home after a 12 hour night shift to find the patio doors wide open. The unit running all night.
I was so on edge. Dreading the moment I’d hear her key in the lock. I was at my wits end. The harmony in the house was now tension. This past Tuesday I returned from work to find she placed a dirty pair of her panties on top of my scrubs I keep in the bathroom to wear again.
I can’t remember if I was still breathing. I stood unable to move for a moment. I put the panties in the trash, washed my scrubs and decided that was it. She returned early that evening looking for the confrontation that became the norm. She was met with silence. She went to the bathroom to find the basket empty. She thought, she must have seen my panties? She casually walked around my presence as if to look for something provoking the opportunity for me to attack. No, not tonight.
I was unable to sleep I was so angry and disgusted. The next morning I went to the Constables office at the court house. I paid and filed for a 5 day eviction notice. It was served the next day. She saw the notice when she came in after 2am. She said nothing. I had every light on on this house and was wide awake, I was ready for whatever scene she wanted to cause. She did nothing.
The next morning she called friends and others to cry in despair that I served her a eviction notice. I began receiving phone calls and pleas to try and work with her. My foot! She is out. If she violates the 5 days, I won’t hesitate to pay for them to physically remove her. Thanks to articles like this one, I know I deserve better. We all deserve better. At the very least I deserve her respect, I am her mother! I wish her well but she will never be welcomed in my home again.
Nightnurse
It's been 7 years since my daughters cut me off. I left my husband in 2012 after 26 years of marriage. He was a 'functioning' alcoholic who had added secretive gambling to the mix. Embezzled money from his business and the very last straw was cheating. Both my daughters were living with their partners and did not know their dad was coming home at 3am in the mornings. One work day he went off to work and did not return until the following evening. That is when I decided to leave.
I explained why and they seemed to understand. They were 22 and 25 at the time.
I was an emotional mess at the time. Had no support at all from my older brothers. No other relatives. Had some wonderful friends who helped me.
My husband kept saying he wanted to work on the marriage... but nothing changed.
6 months after I left I received a nasty email from my eldest daughter saying she wanted nothing to do with me because I had told her things about her father such as the embezzlement, gambling and cheating to help her understand why I was leaving him even though I loved him, but she said I was trying to turn her against her father and then started harking back to things she did as a teenager and my "rules". Never heard another word from her and she blocked me on all social media. Changed her mobile # immediately as well.
My youngest daughter just stopped all contact 3 months after her sister. Absolutely no idea why.
I have tried reaching out numerous times to both over the years. Letters, cards etc... I send to their Nan's address.
Silence for 7 years. No response or acknowledgment whatsoever.
It is tortuous, a living hell. A large part of my heart has died.
I am living my life and am with a lovely man for 4 years now. He has 2 daughters 25 & 28 that he is close to... but there is a part of me that feels such grief, loss and sadness when I see all the text msgs and chats and coffee catchups, lunches 'in jokes' they share between them... its like salt into a wound, but I could never tell him that!!!
And of course that under current of 'she MUST have done something dreadful for both her daughters to have cut her off like that'
Even my brother asked me once, saying 'you can tell me, you must have done something!'
That is what everyone thinks!!
Its such a cruel punishment.
My eldest got married last week. Found out from my nephew who went to the wedding. She's 33 now, do guess a baby will be next.
Can't recapture those precious moments that have been missed. Just adds fire to the pain.
I have no answers 😭
I haven't seen my daughter in a year now, and I don't know when or if I ever will again. This is heartbreaking--I think about her constantly and I don't know how to get past it. Life has moved on for everyone else, but I am stuck here in pain. I would say that we are 50/50 at fault--she knew how to cut me to the core and get a response out of me. I allowed myself to get so emotional when I was the parent and should have controlled it better. Now she doesn't even talk to her little sister. I never thought this would happen--we were so close before she hit 14, then mental health became an issue and she fought our help every step of the way. She was doing great for a while as an adult, but then her "friend" convinced her to get off of her medication and within a year, she cut off almost the whole family. I was first, though. She said she doesn't want me in her life ever again.
I know I am rambling, but it is hard to make sense of any of it.
Your situation is very similar to my own. The trouble with my estranged daughter began when she was 14. That was when her father was cheating on me and left to be with that woman. My daughter blamed me for not being able to keep him from leaving.
She, too, began to suffer from mental illness and began beating me up on a regular basis. I had our entire family in counseling at the time, but it wasn't doing much good.
Our doctor said that my daughter needed to be on physciatric medication and she did take the medicine for about a year, starting at 16. Then, she, too, decided she no longer needed the medicine. Things were worse than ever. She was not only hitting me, but hitting her older and younger siblings as well. She also started calling me all kinds of terrible names. Next, the accusations began.
She would tell me I loved my three other children more than I loved her and that I allowed them to "pick" on her mentally and did nothing to stop them.
This behavior has continued up to this very day, and she is now 43 years old. She is estranged from all of her siblings, having said such horrible things to each one of them that one by one, they stopped speaking to her.
She has stopped speaking to me more times than I can count, but now, there is more of a finality in her saying she doesn't want to speak to me. This time, she used the words, "for good."
In the past, I'd always continue to text her on occasion, telling her how much I love her each time. This time, I'm going to leave her alone for a while. It hurts my heart more than I can bear, but she has asked me to"respect her wishes," so I will.
I don't know exactly how I'm going to handle the future with her, but I know that only intense counseling and medication on her part are the only things that can truly bring about a change.
I'm sorry that you are hurting, too, and I find it so sad that there are so many of us out there.
Child estrangement is epidemic. Oscar Wilde is quoted as saying, "When your children are little they love you, but when they grow up they judge you."
This is what has occurred with you and many other parents. Leave her alone. Do not burden her with calls, courtesies or overtures.
I know it's a shame, but it's common, and you must realize she doesn't see you because she doesn't want to. Then you must realize you don't want to see someone who doesn't want to see you.
Remember, if you never hear from her again, she's the one with the problem, not you.
I feel you. I too am devastated about being cut off from my daughter because we were so close at one time. Like you, the teen years are when everything went downhill. I feel ashamed that this has happened--like I am a broken parent. The worst thing is that I know everyone automatically assumes I did awful things as a parent for this to happen.
Peace to you <3
Someone said a book called Mothers with difficult daughters?
That made me laugh!
I could write my own book about that.. Only nine would be Daughters with Difficult Mothers!
My child is not yet an adult, and has cut me off (for a variety of reasons I suppose, though none were life threatening, just minor misunderstandings and such) - but the main reason is she’s transgender (or at the very least, a lesbian, which doesn’t bother me, as you don’t need to change sex as a lesbian). She hasn’t had hormones or medical treatments as far as I know. She’s what I would term ROGD (rapid onset gender dysphoria), as this started much later than other kids.
She moved in with her dad 3 years ago, only because I had financial issues, but still maintained some contact with me, up until last year, when slowly but surely our relationship was reduced to nothing (her choice, not mine). This separation is worse than when my ex and I split, and that was because of his infidelity. She’s my only child, and I can’t bear this estrangement. I’m tired of being patient, so I’m planning on making a gentle reconciliation request very soon.
Life is too short, and because I am dealing with major health problems I really need to try.
My daughter is 27 and moved to her fathers state. She went. Ack and forth as an adult living between us running up bills. I said no more as her father did. She kept her relationship with her father and shut me out. Would not say why to anyone anywhere. She attempted suicide and I trie to help. It’s been 3 years and I finally sent her a text, I found her number on an old phone. She asked two days ago to leave her alone and that her life is perfect without me.
I’m at a loss.
Dying in Texas.
Hello all, thank you for sharing your stories. Those of you who have relationships with some children and not others, do they have relationships with each other? How do you do holidays?
I find myself pulling back standing invitations to big family events. I don’t won’t the one estranged child to feel left out when everyone else is here. I don’t want to feel the the absence of the one, so I just avoid the day. I’m pulling away from my other kids too. I don’t want to put them between. I don’t want divided loyalties, guilt or obligation. I want to put a condemned sign on my mothering experience and walk away.
I have found that the past 3 years of estrangement, mixed in with angry, accusatory, wrong & hurtful accusations from my oldest daughter, that I no longer want her in my life. It all started when she failed out of college. Somehow it was my fault she didn’t bother attend class.
I love my daughter, don’t get me wrong. But when she isn’t accusing me of being the worst mother in the world, she uses me as her own personal ATM. She is not the girl I raised. The entitled person she has become makes me not want to be around her. As a mother, that makes me feel like a terrible person.
As parents, we teach our kids that they are not required to continue to remain open and affectionate to those who continue to mistreat or reject us. I have continued to try to ensure no stone unturned, but at some point for my own sanity I know I have to stop trying.
I read an article that said some estrangement comes when the daughter/son gets married. Here is my story. My 32 year old daughter and I were I thought close until she met her now husband. We would speak on the phone a couple times a day and things were good.
She met this man who I instantly in my gut did not like, but pretended for her sake. One night he butt dialed me with her phone and he not realizing i was listening was calling her a bitch.slut, whore, liar, cheater, stupid etc. She was just sobbing and i was screaming on the phone to him but he didn't hear me. She came over afterwards and said she was going back to him. I just walked away after begging her not to go back to this abuser.
Time goes on...3 kids later. Now she has quit her high paying job because he told her to. He has had 18 jobs in the last 3 years and its always someone elses fault that he leaves.
She has to go to beg dhs and everybody else for money for the kids.
He held a gun to her head. She put him in jail and 2 weeks later she bails him out.
He has introduced heroine into the family and now they both steal to get money. She has several charges as well as him for theft. No decent car, no insurance, child protective services were called and said it is ok to have a generator to have electricity as long as there is food in the cupboards.
stupidely, I gave her 2K to get a lawyer and fix her charges after I took her to clean up and detox and now...she didn't go to the lawyer, blew the 2K on who knows what.
Today I found out that her daughter had a Christmas pagent at school of which his mom, dad were invited but not me.
We were to go shopping for the kids for Christmas today and once the husband found out threw a fit to her and said no....we are going....not your mom.
She either is so abused and scared to argue.
Or doesn't care how I feel. I have decided I am done. Lies, gossip, cannot hold my head up in the small town we live in because of the thefts.
Not completely blaming the guy she is married to because she has her own mind, but things in her life were fine before this man who has banned everyone but his family from the house and lets his wife beg the state or other people for money because someone else should support the family. Working is just something he is not fond of and with her record now not a soul would hire her. If the cops stopped the car she would end up in jail and has 3 small kids.
I am done. She is old enough. Never this unthoughtful and hurtful. Abused, no self esteem. But I cannot fathom having a relationship with a man who does this to my daughter and she loves him.
Just hurt and venting. Thanks for listening.
I too am a parent who has experienced cut off from an adult child. I have a very close relationship with my two other children, my parents, and extended family and in-laws. My family did not understand the cut-off and so my son cut them off as well. He currently does not speak to anyone in our family or to many of his friends. The cut off happened after he married his current wife when he was 31 years old. Prior to that, we had a very close relationship. His wife appears to be fairly insecure and accused me of doing things that I did not do. She accused me of doing things at the wedding that were not true and I did get angry and told my son to stay out of my life if he and she were going to be disrespectful. He did that, even though I did not mean it and said it out of anger and have apologized many times since. There were problems with the dynamic with his new wife and that blew up at the wedding. We loved her and accepted her but she assumed negative things that were not true.
This situation has been very painful for me and disruptive as well. Probably one of the most challenging things I have ever dealt with. So, I have been trying to use it to learn and to grow as a person. One thing I have been thinking about is the fact that I really did not want to have children. However, when it happened, I really made my children everything in my life. I did everything for them and was always there for them. They had everything they ever needed, bought them cars, paid for college, helped them buy houses and always gave money when needed. But, I wonder about my feelings of not wanting children and a resentment that my son does not appreciate all that I have done for him. He and his new wife were very disrespectful to me at their wedding but I should not have reacted in such an angry manner. Could my deep resentment have come out? I hate to think of that because me relationship with my two other children and my grandson are the most important in my life other than with my husband. These feelings are so conflicting and confusing.
After thinking a long time on this and then after I read the comments by Jake on this thread, I do think that the selfish entitlement of some young adults is aggravating to many baby boomers who lavished so much on their children. We spoiled them, lets' face it. We were going to be the very best of parents, giving them everything, a trophy for every game mentality. I do resent my son for not appreciating all that I did. Also, I resent him because I could have had my own life but I chose to raise him instead and sacrifice all I could have done with my life to give him everything.
I write this because I wonder if all the hurt and devastation we feel when our adult, entitled, self absorbed, millennial children cut us off is really a favor to us? We are old but we still have some years to have our own lives without dealing with all of their drama and needs. There is still time for us to enjoy what we want and to focus on ourselves for a change. Perhaps the emphasis on having your children in your life is constructed by our society. It is really to their benefit if you think about it. I don't need him to take care of me and there are so many other people in the world who would be thankful for what I might offer to them.
I have decided to change the narrative of our society. We need to let our children go and live their own lives. We created them as selfish and entitled and now we have to live with that. They will never be there for us in the way we have been for our own parents. But, that is okay because their demands are through the roof and their lack of respect soul draining. We take responsibility for it and live to enjoy what we missed by having and raising them. Maybe that is a rationalization but I wonder more and more if it is not a more reasonable way to deal with this type of behavior.
The narrative of parents needing to have adult children in their lives desperately puts our adult children in a position of power. Since they are entitle, self absorbed, arrogant individuals they take full advantage of the power and punish us if we don't conform to what they want. This power differential is ridiculous! What are we thinking?? This is just more of the same of what we did by pampering them so much as children. We all need to break this cycle of co-dependence. I for one am working to re-focus my brain on my own life. I admit it is tough after 35 years of focusing solely on the well-being of my children but I have faith in myself that I can do it and get back to that idealistic person who was 22 and had so many plans for her life!
What is a more constructive way to say this? I've reached out in early June and July about visiting my daughter. She had never responded. I know she checks email and other social media hourly! These are my RAW feelings:
Unless you have changed your email, which I doubt, I get it; I’m not stupid.
As much as it pains me to say this, from now on out, why don’t I let you initiate any visits and conversations. If you want us to come, let us know; I won’t ask to come. We won’t bother you as this is what I feel I am to you.. a bother. I would really like to be involved as I can in X, Y and Z’s lives and yours as well. You don’t stop loving and wanting the best for your kids when they reach a certain age. Try to imagine yourself in 20 years. Try to imagine the relationship you have with me as the relationship you have with one of your children…. YEAH… it sucks.
I can no longer handle the pain of your rejection or indifference. So… I’m no longer going to try. If you want this relationship, you need to reach out for it yourself.
I love you and want to be in your life. The door has always been open… just walk through it.
Mom
NOTE to community; I have no clue what I did to make my daughter not want to be with us. I don't get it. She was given everything she wanted (maybe that was it). As far as I know, there were no negative influences from my husband or myself (no abuse, no alcoholism, no other junk -- just loving, supportive parents who had their own flaws -- NORMAL)
This is an interesting perspective. My 32-yr-old daughter turned on me, hates me, etc. The thing is I am def not a codependent type. I have two other sons. I don't need to be in constant touch or know everything they're doing. But to have my daughter speak real hate to me (from California; I'm in CT) is devastating.
I've done a lot of soul searching about what I expected of my kids. I want them to be happy. That's it. I want them to live their own lives. They all are. But my daughter reaches back from time to time with all kinds of twisted accusations. My own therapist suspects she has developed a personality disorder.
It just hurts. But I take your point. The only thing we can do -- is to move on. Thanks.
After dealing with some time of an estranged daughter, I come to realize, its all in the situation of the child what matters most. If your child is self sustaining their life and have their life in order, then let them be. Live and let live. Most of the pain is in your head, meaning you are creating the pain. You had a life before them and you should have a life after them, when it comes to estrangement. You can't do anything about it and trying, will most likely make things worse. Leaving them alone and time will tell. It hurts (as I know and am still going through it. Daughter comes back in at times and then distances herself. Seems to rinse and repeat.), but it is an adult life you are dealing with. They have final say, just as you do for your life only. It takes some time to get use to it, but if you realize anything, life continues on, No Matter What.
For my ongoing situation. I do not walk on eggshells, nor will I beg to be in my daughters (grandson's) life. I leave her alone and at times do not think about her, until someone brings her up. I keep on living my life and focus on my wife and son. For this, at times she wants back into my life. Each time I am reluctant, but I still let her in (its my child and now also grandson), then for some out of the blue reason, she distances herself again and keeps herself and the grandson away. I just continue to live my life and let her be. It took awhile, but I (at most times) do not let it bother me anymore and come to accept it. Its hard to get close to my grandchild, when she decides that she wants me in her life, because I know she will make it where we do not see each other for long periods of time. Like I said, I learned to not let it consume my life, as my life has much more importance than someone who does not want to be in it. I have another child (who gives me the love that is lost from the other), a wife, a job, which all leads to "A Life", outside of an estrangement. Keep your head up and don't make your adult child your only thing in your life worth living for.
Keep reaching out on holidays and letting them know you care got me an order of protection! I am in total shock over all of this.
To begin my son is married and his wife hates me. I have tried to do things to let her know I feel welcome her into our family but she comes from total dysfunction. A mom who overdosed on cocaine twice and a nut job father who created his own religion. My son along with his 2 brothers and I were really close and had a wonderful relationship. The relationships with my other 2 are still wonderful. But the oldest married a highly insecure and controlling woman who said she would cut me out of their lives and followed through. She told that to a mutual Friend a couple of years ago.
So he stopped communicator with us before thanksgiving. I left them a voice mail a invited them to at least have dessert with us. Not response. Christmas came, I left a voice mail asking if we could get together and talk, nothing. I left him and her Christmas presents and cookies on their door stoop. No response. His birthday, I sent a card and called. Again nothing. Then in April, while walking my dog I stopped at their gate as their dogs were out. They had moved into my neighborhood, where I have lived f or almost 10 years. I said hi to the dogs and went home. The wife then started texting me telling me to stay away and if I ever came by again, she would call the cops. I did not go by their house again. A week later, I got served with an order of protection. One of the allegations was that I left Christmas presents and cookies! This is so absurd even I acne believe it. The worst part was the stupid judge granted him the order of protection. I am now appealing it. But am left bewildered at this turn of events. I feel that my son has been brainwashed or is mentally ill. I am so confused how this happened. So telling someone to stay in contact may backfire on you
My relationship with my daughter has always been a struggle. She has betrayed me many times since she was a young adult. During an awful custody battle, she served as a mole for my ex and wrote a letter full of lies to help my ex get full custody of my 10 year old son. He did get custody and the letter she wrote told of how miserable my child was in the home and how poorly he was treated. (Mind you, she lived in my home and so did my oldest son; but they were almost grown, I made good money, and he wanted to go after the youngest one, so he could get child support). The letter was the item that made the judges mind. And my ex was awarded full custody and $1000 a month in child support. I was devastated. She did this because he promised to send her half of what he collected in child support. She resented my new husband, who had NOTHING to do with the breakup. I didn't remarry for six years after I divorced my first husband. She got angry for being put on restriction for sneaking out of the house and accused my new husband of staring at her in a sexual way, when actually he went in the room to see if she was actually asleep, as she would go to bed fully dressed and slip out when we fell asleep. I asked my husband if any of this was true and he said no. I believed him, because she was trying to stir issues with us. I almost cut her off for good when she worked with her father to savage my family.
Years passed and their were so many times, for no apparent reason, she would get angry with me and just stop talking to me. She was cheating on her husband and she knew I didn't approve. I told her she should leave if she wasn't happy, as her husband was a great guy. He ended up keeping their daughter for a few months when he finally told her to leave. But that is another story.
Now, she has made up some bs story about my youngest son, her half brother, who helped her and my other son constantly with their children. It's so disgusting and of course, none of it is true. If she isn't lashing out at me or trying to ruin her brothers lives, she isn't happy. My oldest son cut her off years ago.
The advice to reach out and always keep lines of communication open won't work for me. I am done with this. It has affected my ability to even want to socialize and frankly, she almost broke my spirit this time. I gave my all. I helped her with her daughter, I even paid for private school for my grand daughter. I still have great relationships with my oldest and youngest sons. I will be thankful for them and never look back. I can't do this anymore and frankly, we only get so many spins around the sun. The energy I am giving isn't matching on the other side, it's time to let go.
HELLO. New here to this site. I am estranged from both my son and daughter. Although, I occasionally have contact. From what I read here by the author/Dr., I realize it was great advice. But, I'm having an issue, with being able to do it. Keeping that door open, keep on trying. It is very stressful, and it keeps me from living my life. I'm in knots all the time. I have panic attacks, all the time. Especially, when I'm trying to fall asleep. Lack of good sleep and healthy eating, makes me so tired all day. So, tired I can't accomplish anything. Can't exercise, work, or have fun.
When speaking to my kids, about issues in the relationship or how I feel deeply disrespected, I make sure to be calm and not attack them. I just tell how what they did hurt me. But, it is always is turned around on me. Or they say they DON'T remember. They have also yelled back at me. Here's just an example. Mother's day. I'm not into gifts, but like to hear from them, and say 'Happy Mother's Day MOM'. Once, I DIDN'T hear from my son. (at least I thought that). It was later in the day, so my husband and I just went out. 4:30pm he calls. I just felt bad, that he forgot. I DIDN'T get mad. Just wanted to express myself. He yelled at me and said, 'well, I guess I need to call first thing In the morning'. This is just 1 example of how it is with him. It's very hurtful. An example of my daughter. We planned a trip TOGETHER. I was going to fly up to her, rent a car. I was going to meet her boyfriend. I suggested to my daughter, making dinner for him. This trip was planned by us both. We had no issues at that time. I was so excited. No sooner did I get there, my daughter ask if she could swing by TO see her boyfriend. ?? I thought that was strange. But, I said SURE...I wanted to be easy going, to get along. Then she called me to ask if she can borrow my rental to take her boyfriend's MOM OUT to dinner?????? Not even inviting me....that was our first day together. This is what I deal with my kids. THRY are n o w 32 & 28. Same things like THat happens. So, naturally it's something THat is so painful, I DON't know how to have them in my life.
Your daughter sounds as heartless as my daughter. The only reason I was ever invited to do anything with her or my middle son was so I could foot the bill. The didn't talk to me or interact with me. They left me with the kids while they would go outside and smoke. When dinner was over, the kids were dumped on me so they could go out and see a movie, shop or have drinks at a bar.
I don't need it in my life. I am over it. You don't need it. I don't need it.
Posted May 27, 2022. Not so good that your husbands wanted nothing more to do with her. ALWAYS back on the mother. Depending on whether or not the situation has changed since you wrote, if you are certain about the quack doctor, you could report him or her to your State Board of Licensure.
I think your daughter's behavior parallel's mine, (minus the drugs), at that age. One thing would have helped: being hired by the company that had employed my father, instead of being told to go to college first - (not necessary for a beginning job there) - yes - that's a big one; and even one person having faith in me and that I could do something with my life - at that point, someone unrelated - not a therapist. Therapy came later, too late, and of course it never helped replace many lost years - actually a full life lost that needn't have been lost. I feel for you both.
My experiences were similar. She was always very attached and had overpowering separation anxiety from the day of her birth. Consequently we did everything together. I tried my best to help her be brave... sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. I felt I was always neglecting her older brother because she was intensely attached. While she was in elementary school she hung out with her brother. Bless him. As an adult man we have a strong respectful relationship. He is 31 and she is 29.
I tried my best to be June Cleaver but June didn't have a full time job outside the home, nor a husband with bi-polar issues and with an obsessive disorder so my time was more limited but I still managed to be on her sports committees, drive her everywhere and make her childhood and teenhood as smooth as possible. I even switched school districts to be closer to home in hopes this would bring down her anxiety. She was in grade 6. And it did.
Her father had an affair and consequently we split up after 27 years together - she was 22 and living with her husband. Five years ago I met a lovely man and we got married 2 years ago. I am very happy. She is not happy with my re-marriage. My son has embraced my husband because he sees how good he is to me. She has not and cringes everytime I try to make her understand that this relationship is "God sent" for me. One of my husband's sons also treats me the way my daughter treats my husband... distant, tolerant, restraint and suspicious. Most people say it is about inheritance and having a “step parent” means "everything is split one more time" - it goes much deeper than that though. It seems this is also quite "normal" among my friends who have remarried after a long former marriage but that is a whole other conversation.
She is very controlling. I am only allowed to text. I cannot have Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner with her husband’s family but I am allowed to go to ball games or go out for a casual lunch with them. Sometimes I think it is about her mom in law – mom in law is frustrated with ‘lack of grandchildren”. Other times I think it is her embarrassment about me. I really don’t know why I am embarrassing though. I am educated, pretty, kind, friendly, and happy. I love deeply and cry easily. I love her and her husband. My heart hurts knowing she doesn’t like me. When she left home, I told her that as an adult woman I met my mum once a week for dinner and we talked all the time. I enjoyed being a friend with her and knowing her as a woman not just in the role of my mum. She replied, “we will never be friends”. I truly don’t know why.
I read a lot of your stories and share the pain and sorrow you all have. As each circumstances are a little different, most have the same outcome. Never the less, raising a child you loved and cared for, will always hurt when they selfishly disown a parent or parents. Is it me, is it you? I say no, it is society and it is a sign of the times. It does seem that it generally is the daughter (but not always) who is doing the disowning.
As a dad, I deal with it every day and I come to realize, there is not a lot I can do, except live my life and care for the one's who are in it and want to be in it.
For me, it is my daughter. I have been in her life, from the day she was born. Her mom and I divorced when she was 5 years old (my fault = cheating), but her mom and I have been in her life equally ever since. I went to all school function, church functions (1st baptism and such), had her couple nights a week and every other weekend, paid for college for her to get her masters, paid for her wedding and then 2 years later, she outed me out of her life.
A few things came out, that she holds onto = Her junior and senior year, I might of missed 2-3 swim meets, out of close to 100 throughout her swimming life. I did miss a 2nd baptism when she got out of college and met her husband and decided to get baptized in a different religion. Over a year ago Grandpa was on his deathbed from heart failure and I was called to come see him and my daughter went too. On that day, my daughter decided to have it out with me and from there the disowning started. Most stems from $ (when she got married at 25, I told her now her husband is financially responsible for her and them) and the other is my personality is what she has told me. She also mentions the few things I missed and then tells me that I did not go to nothing of hers, all but a few things. When I say I was there for my daughter, I was there for her on most everything and deep down inside she knows this.
Fast forward to now. She since has had a baby and we have only seen him once. She also has disengaged from most of my family on my side, as they were there for her, while she was growing up. Her brother who is 16, she has nothing to do with and we all question what her motives are.
I tried and tried and since then I have stepped back and I give her, her space. I decided that I still have a life and a child who needs my love. I do not think of the grandchild much, as it is my way of coping with it. Kind of like, out of sight, out of mind.
She does still see and talk to her mom, but she has been known to turn on her before, so she walks on eggshells around her.
Life is too short and I call her the spoiled apple and I do not want her to spoil the whole orchard, so I let be, what it is. I love her and will be here for her, if she ever gets past this, but for me, I Moved On and I am still living life.
P.S. I am not an alcoholic, drug user and I did not molest her in any way, so we are unsure what has made her this way. We speculate her mom might be the one or the husband and his family, that has pushed her into this, but my daughter is real head strong and no one can make her do anything she didn't want to do.
I was a shy kid so did not make friends easily. My mother was always very outgoing. When I was inside the house instead of playing outside with other kids, my mother repeatedly told me I was "a zero", I just "sat in the house all day and did nothing", and it was "no wonder nobody likes you". I knew my quiet nature got on her nerves. I used to avoid her. One day when I was 12, I yelled back at her that I thought her constantly saying those things to me was terrible and she just made me feel bad. It stopped her at that moment, but her negative view of me remained at showed in other ways.
My sister was more outgoing like our mom. As I got older, I saw how my mom deferred to her opinions over mine. If we were ordering a pizza to share and my sister liked olives and I didn't, my mom would just tell me "you can eat around them" instead of choosing a topping we all liked. Even recently I was late to my mom's house when we were all going to a movie so my sister and our mom left without me. When I arrived, my dad drove me over to the theater and I met them inside. I was only 7 minutes late. My point in all this is that my mom was dismissive of me from an early age and still is. My dad never made any effort to correct her. It just became our family dynamic.
I am in my 40's now but several years ago I asked my mother if she remembers telling me I was "a zero, and that nobody would ever like me." She said she has no memory of it.
In my experience, my mom never thought she did anything wrong or hurtful to me. She still doesn't see how her actions are wrong. I've told her, but she just shrugs like I'm being too sensitive.
Through all of my hurt, I will not cut her off. I could, but I won't. It's partly love, but partly out of guilt that I remain in her life. The irony is it seems all the parents who have kids that don't speak to them anymore never think they've done anything wrong. All the kids who cut parents off say they indeed have told their parents why. Where is the disconnect?
My 35 year old daughter abandoned me, her daddy and her baby brother, who is now 31. I find your article, though repeatedly claiming to be neutral, is very skewed in favor of the adult child who has left. We nurtured, loved and cared for our children the best way we knew how, without the aid of computers and chat rooms. We were good parents. More than anything, we loved unconditionally. Now that we are getting older and closer to a time where we may need our children to return some of that back to us, they use their computers and chat rooms to help them decide if being in a relationship with their parent is best for them or not.
We raised them to be responsible adults. They need to act like it and honor and show unconditional love to their parents as we've done to them.
What about situations with a toxic parent who has been given numerous opportunities and conversations to stop a damaging pattern of behaviour e.g. manipulating, always focused on the negative and willing to fight, arguing over minute things, physically abusing the other parent and emotionally abusing their son's wife, stirring things to cause frequent discord and harassing their son's wife parents for having a different lifestyle?
All of which is impossible to fix because of a reluctance to change their attitude after being made very aware of their actions on their family, seeing a therapist to no avail and even being arrested for their actions?
You address the only one extreme of the spectrum, whereby the adult child is the horrible person. What about those children who are literally left with no option, and still care so much that they spend time researching how being cutoff from contact will affect them.
Parents need to have a hightened level of self-awareness to know where they may have gone wrong. Yes, there are adult children out there who can't be helped, but they are a minority. Most people want to remain as connected to their parents as they can - this becomes impossible when the relationship is untenable despite countless attempts to rectify the situation and give more to them than is equitable is any healthy relationship.
A parents actions have consequences just as an adult child's actions have consequences. I don't believe parents should be able to think they are completely innocent and absolved of responsibility.
Or maybe the parent was horrible to the child and they cut the parent out to get rid of a toxic human being.
How can you say that it has nothing to do with the parent? That is ridiculous.
Wow reading this has given me the confirmation I was kind of on the right track. Thanks so much for writing this for those that seek help.
I'm estranged from my teenage boys and as a Mum it's been a heart breaking road to travel. I myself distanced from my father as a young child for his physical abuse to my mother who he had left as a 7 month pregnant solo mother. And then I also shut him out of my life again as a teen girl, I have since tried to reconnect and have my say as to why I did those things. But I also have been rejected by him 22 years later.
I have struggled with having been in their shoes but for very different reasons.
They chose to live full time with their father and his then wife to be and their twin girls. The struggle for me started here, on the parent side. I gave in to what was the easiest way without any aggression. I know realise this was not the way to go. No not a physical aggression a mental aggression as to what was best for us all as a blended family, not was convenient way for them. I sacrificed my own voice and wants. Thanks again for writing this and sorry for the novel.
The more you send cards and letters, and the more you "chase" them, it simply empowers them to feel their punishment is working, and they have you under their control. It is manipulation. It also is not respecting their boundaries to have a chance to work out their problems. They want to be left along, then leave them alone.
And as far as them coming through your door and you not defending yourself, everyone has a right to their personal boundaries including parents of adult children. Most estrangers have made accusations that are not true or exaggerated, so I don't recommend any parent agree to false accusations. I run a support group for estranged parents and many times a third party has caused the estrangement like an ex-spouse, a new son-in-law, daughter-in-law who is insecure and jealous. Your advice is centered on the young adult child and not in consideration of the parents who spent much sacrifice to raise children who grew up with the media, education, and government influencing them against family values and encouraging them to disrespect their parents. I would not recommend some of your advice to anyone.
Interesting article - but where does that leave a 'deserted dad' wife kidnapped daughter at 3 and took her 450 miles away contrary to agreement. nasty divorce where mother wanted 80% of everything plus me to pay the legal bills in top. I sent daughter stamped addressed envelopes and paper - she never got them... now she is 35 just had my first and only grandson she is my only child. ( I could never risk loosing another child ) when I last saw her, she lives 150 plus miles away - half way between her mother and I - I asked her straight out do you want me in your life? (I've seen her less than 500 days throughout her whole life - circumstance and distance -. she answered 'don't know. At her wedding her step Aunt made the comment - if anyone in the world brought up your daughter other than that woman she would have not suffered so - Apparently every time she went to her mother with a problem she made it worse!.
The divorce was not of my doing and my daughter has suffered at the 'mental hands' of my ex wife - with distances I had little option to even know of the school play was on let alone if my daughter was in the play.
Now some three months since the birth of My grandson - I have still not been permitted to visit, (nor has her mother) she has 'mementoes' of me in her home (but not from her mother) suggesting she does want to be reminded of me but, the refusal to commit to a visit is simply grinding me down to 'total severance' while all around me say don't give up... after 30 plus years of trying and mostly 'clicking' when we are together - I am at a loss to know and am in tears ....where do I go from here...
My 20yr old daughter resents me cos I spent slot of time in hospital or working wen she was growing up and she stayed I am only her mother cos I gave birth to her
I asked her to be my friend and she don't want that either
I am hurt and angry
I haven't been on this website for awhile do to illness.
I read some responses to adult child "Jake" that really helped me. It will be three years in March that my adult children estranged me; " Do not contact us. We will contact you when we are ready." A lot of the replies to "Jake" were cathartic for me because they verbalized a lot of my questioning thoughts, i.e. 'It seems the 10000 good things done for a child are wiped out by one mistake, wrong or misunderstanding.'
Also, I've fight guilt from time to time because I'm enjoying my life without them. I had let them tear me down to the point of deteriorating my physical health. I have a better life now and I'm happier without their drama interfering in my marriage and other relationships.
I hope and pray that they are happy and wie can put this behind us.
Thanks.
Dear Pj3b,
Give yourself some time. Being rejected by our child(ren) is a hurtful experience. It takes time to get some objectivity. How would you comfort a friend if they came to you with the same situation? Be your own best friend and be kind. Your daughter has much to learn about life if she doesn't see how your job provided for her needs growing up. It may take some time or she may not choose to acknowledge this. Meanwhile, it's time to let her follow her own journey in this life and focus on being good to yourself; healing and becoming all you can be. I'm sure this isn't the first hard thing in life that you have experienced. You came through other tough circumstances and you will get through this one too.
Like most of us on this website, you were a good and caring parent. This thing our children have done blindsides us and we're confused for a bit. Take your time, be patient with yourself. Read through the stories here that others have experienced and you will find comfort, hope for yourself and strength. I stand with you...lcjantzi
Or the parents did not nag and yell. They were patient and kind. with "Joe." And he chose to leave despite their caring patience. When faced with that, they have no control over their adult child. And to remain forever stuck, waiting for his return, does nobody good.
Sheri McGregor
Author of Done With The Crying: Help and Healing for Mothers of Estranged Adult Children
My 22 year old who had some emotional difficulties beginning at around age 16 did a semester abroad to finish college and reluctantly came home to help me after a life threatening removal of a tumor from my ear. (i had no one else to drive me home from the hospital.) She was already done with all of her academic requirements.
From the moment she arrived she was emotionally abusive, would not even help me move my head bandage or ever got me a cup of tea or something to eat. Immediately after the surgery, when I was exhausted and barely able to walk she was verbally abusive and cruel. By the fourth day she physically attacked me in public and I had to run away from her. I did go to the police but did not press charges.
I sought out her FB friends (she was never active on FB before) and met with them. they were two nasty young women who made it clear they wanted her to get rid of me and were very rude and disrespectful to me. One (she has only known my daughter 3 months) acted like she owned my daughter and and controlled her completely. My daughter is leaving for Europe in 2 days. (I have not seen her since she attacked me when of course I asked her to leave my home). She has been communicating by e-mail and blames me for ????? She has refused all mental health treatment although i did get her to go see a therapist with me the day before the attack and the therapist witnessed some very strange behaviors and statements made by my daughter. She is preparing a thorough written report. My daughter has told me she hates me, told me I pushed her away, etc.
I am wondering if anyone has had a child come under some kind of strange control by other people. The two women acted like cult leaders and it was creepy sitting with them. They had no emotion, were very physically obese for young ladies, their eyes were vacant and cold. My daughter had a suicide attempt in Ireland and in trying to get information about what happened everyone is treating me like i am the enemy: these creepy girls, her international coordinator at her university, a semi-boyfriend in Ireland. Everyone has either lied to me or refused to answer my questions. Again has anyone had a complete change of personality in their child after getting involved with a new group of people?
I am feeling very sad. My daughter was once my closest friend and while she was showing some signs of deterioration before she went abroad, nothing like this.
@ Jake
In response to your post: My last point is: Good, they should be in pain and they will remain in pain until they shape up. I have one life, and I will not be controlled, manipulated, or told what to do.
They may have used the same EXACt words about you and you shaped up and got your crap together boot camp style, the way many of us had to! They also have one life to live and shouldn't be controlled or manipulated hence you cutting them off with intent of pain.
I hope you're happy, healthy, and living well indeed as that would be their happiness, I'm sure they will let go of any pain and not hang on to the past, they deserve to be enjoying life just as much as you do. Understand when you're a parent and then grandparent, that full circle of life will give you Better vision...you'll see more clearly.
When they are gone you'll really know how justified or not you were for distancing yourself. My husband didn't talk to his dad for ten years, he parked it and kept saying I'll call him but one day he got the call that he was gone....regrets! And me, my mom used to let me down but the balance of her good didn't make me cut her off thank God because she is now gone and I miss her everyday but less regret!
Good luck on your journey, live well and make amends if possible, it doesn't mean daily talks but just words of I am okay and know I love you can be so healing to all involved. Just do what you can live with and look in the mirror to say I'm not pride driven but living with a heart of love. Take care!
@Jake
To each its own, reading your two post it sounds so entitled- your parents had No obligation to pay your way through college and that's that even if they were millionaires..
Then the one about hoping they are suffering, sounds like bitterness and very cold.
I hope they are late living well and have accepted who you are and your choice.
This site is more intended for those parents as yours to lean against each other, you may want to move along to a site more geared towards your peer group Of similar emotions. best of luck with your stand...share the "payed your own way" bit to potential employers but save the "cut off hoping they're hurting " because that will demo only that you can't handle rules, and go to extreme with conflict.
In all..,be happy ? and live well.
Acer Xpress No progress can be made on this awful subject if all we have are people patting our backs and telling us that we were in the right. There are groups for that, they can be very helpful, but they only get one side of this cultural phenomenon. The fact that Jake would put explain his reasoning in a place where there is an overwhelming opposition to the very subject is not a bad thing. Even if you disagree with him, give him some credit for at least trying to have an opposing view and opening himself up to antagonism.
Of course he is bitter. He's hurt. He was abandoned by his parents -remember they threatened to cut him out of their lives first. I agree with you that his parents can do whatever they want with their stuff and put whatever strings upon him they please. It's the golden rule, right? He who has the gold makes the rules? But expecting him to not be furious about that means you must be possessed of a purity of kindness and spirit that exists once in a generation.
@ Robert
every me is entitled to their own opinion, mine was that just as he can heal so can his parents. That even though he denies his suffering and because he wishes them agony, even more that he may be hurting...hence being on this site. There is nothing wrong with patting people on the back to make progress...in home and at work for trying to improve "a pat on back" does make people feel good, provides support. After all this is why we are on this site. Not all our kids are jake, mine has other issues and I see my part in it because of the distance. But yes, she is no jake and I wasn't at that age either in our culture we paid our own way and it was not expected of our parents so if it was about money then that's superficial.
But to humanize Jake and his parents and everyone on this site, I praise all that try to find meaning from this challenge of separation. It's only an opinion and I don't go with that golden rule about money but the real one that's "treat others as you yourself would like to be treated"
For these type of things I never meant to convey anyone was right or wrong just that this site is for aching parents and some with fresh wounds. Hence I wouldn't go to an AA meeting with a case of beer ?
@Jake
Most parents want their kids to succeed and sometimes the approach can seem controlling. It's great that you paid your own way, that's probably the best way as it teaches us to grow up faster and own up to the independent lives we're meant to live. I'm sure your parents have an underlined sense of pride that you did it after all they did their part by not giving you up and encouraging higher education in the first place.
It all worked out, they have a little extra for their retirement and you've done well and probably have a better appreciation which is bragging right in interviews.
If they didn't threaten your life, then cutting them off may be extreme. At the end of the day I'm sure they have a pain of not having you around just as much as you also be suffering???
But I'm sure they are just content knowing you're well, financially and independent and out of harms way. Good luck, live well
It's admirable that you paid your way through college, got a full time job, and expedited your independent life, that's the way it should . You've got a better prideful story to tell during job interviews and will appreciate it more because you paid your own way. Entitlement seems to be a thing going around these days. I'm sure they are proud of your choice today.
They did their job of raising you. If they threatened your life that's one thing but most of the time everything is a threat from child-parent But then everything is rebellion as a parent. Once grandparents we understand the whole reasoning....there's always two sides to a story, hopefully they are happy living their lives and enjoying their years after raising their son. It seems it all worked out for you all but I'm sure they hurt as much as you, to deny that would be robotic ?
Roadtohappiness
Good for you too. Perhaps you could ask yourself WHY your mom did what she did. She could have done it out of desperation. Many young people do stuff to their parents yet are ashamed to let their relatives and frens know they did such terrible things to their parents. There are those children who get married and then compare their in-laws to their parents.
Of course,their in-laws are a novelty bcs they treat the young son-in-law/daughter-in-law differently from the way their parents treat them. The parents take things for granted. So do the children.
Why, did my mother do what she did ( send that email specifically)? Because she could. Was she desperate? I believe she was angry...tring to hurt me, my family. Will she be able to do it again? No, as she is now blocked from sending us any emails or messages.
What terrible things did I do to my parents? As a teenager I had some boyfriends my parents didn't like ?, I enjoyed going to parties with friends, when I was 18... I went night clubbing with friends ( drunk sometimes). I'm sure there are allot of other terrible things I did to them ( that my mother has told the rest of my relatives and all her friends). The thing is, I use to care about what she said or told others about me, but I now no longer care what she says about me.
As for my in-laws...I get along with them well, along with the rest of my husbands side of the family who I love just as much.
People cut off others for many reasons. I tried very hard to get along with my mother, as I would have loved to have a close relationship with her...but we just never got along. We never had that close mother and daughter relationship, where we spent time together or did things together. On a positive note, I have learnt allot from her (what, not to do) when raising a family. I now have a teenage myself who, goes to parties, has girlfriends ( ones I like, others not so much), get angry at me sometimes, slams doors sometimes, swears occasionally, gets fantastic school marks ( with my support)... Whom I get along fantastically with and I love very much. I have allot of time for my children, my priority!!!
Home is where my husband is....& we have have a great one. Anyone that comes into my life that causes allot of trouble within the things that matter to me the most..doesn't have a place in my life.
I actually get along fantastically with my in-laws. They are top people, whom I love very much...along with all my husbands side of the family.
Why, did my mother send that email? Because she could. The email wasn't specifically about me, but also my father (whom she divorced many years ago). Personal family stuff. Will she ever be able to do it again? No, because she is now blocked from all our emails. If she wasn't DESPERATE before, I'm sure she is even more desperate now!!
What terrible things did I do to my parents? I had a boyfriend/s ....a few... while I was a teenager ( whom my parents didn't like)?...I went to parties with friends, I moved out and lived with my Nana & Pop during my teenage years (who basically raised my sister and me anyway)...while she was dating, going to university, doing what's important to her. I'm sure there are plenty of other terrible things my mother could tell you about and have already told all my other relatives and all her friends. The thing is- I use to care about what she said, but now I don't.
On a positive note, I'v learnt ALLOT from my mother (on what...not to do). I now have a teenage son, & daughter....who go to parties with friends, have girlfriends, get angry at times with me, slam doors sometimes, get fantastic school marks & best off all, has a great relationship with me. My husband and I have raised our children ourselves. Where my husband is ( is where my home is)...and people that cause trouble within my immediate family...do not have a place in my life.
Roadtohappiness Hmmm good for you. Wish you all the best. I'm sure you won't make the same mistakes your mom made. Good luck that all will turn out well and that history does not repeat itself bcs for no good reason your own children might simply turn on you one day and cut you off the way you did your mom.
Kids say and do the darnest things LOL. Have you ever heard this chinese folk tale? Being chinese kindly allow me to tell you this story. A man carried his very old and feeble father up the mountain in a basket tied to his back. His young son went along. The man left his father on the mountain. As they were about to leave his young son said to the man,
"Father,do not forget to bring the basket home so that I can use it to carry you up here when you grow old like grandpa".
@The Scribe
And if I do still stay in contact with my mother....yes, My own children could one day STILL cut off me also...
It was actually a joint decision to cut off my mother ( my husband and I made). Yes, it was a big decision and a hard one, but we decided the best decision was to put our relationship and children first. Both my husband, and I could write a long list of reasons to back that decision (which we did). My own mother once rang my husband and chat to him (degrading me) then saying....please don't tell my daughter (me), I rang you!!!! My mother had no boundaries.
As for my mother growing old and being looked after, she has plenty of money/ superannuation to pay my sister to do that. My sister is her beneficiary. She has already sorted that. ? How do I know that? Because she told me.
It's a win/ win situation in my circumstance. As I wrote before, I tried, would have loved a great relationship with my mother...but unfortunately thats not how society works anymore.
On a positive note, I now have a great and close relationship with my father (whom my mother divorced many years ago).
mastik8 JakeGoodale
Wow mastika8 Wow indeed! It looks like parents these days have to apologise for their service to their children.
JakeGoodale If you haven't gathered yet, there are a large number of people very against going no contact here. In that respect thank you for posting another contrary opinion.
To your parents' credit, they can do whatever they want with the resources at their disposal. You didn't say what they wanted. It doesn't matter though. They can say "if you're going to live in our house you have to kiss our life sized statue of Steven Seagal after every word you use that has a silent E." It's their stuff, that's their right. You are an adult and they do not have to allow another adult in their home if that adult does not obey the conditions of being there.
Let's be clear though: threatening to kick you out IS a threat to your personal safety. I'll entirely ignore the threat to your future, future happiness, and future income (though the fact that they would ignore that is pretty messed up). What threatening to kick someone out means is "If you do not do what we are asking you to do, we are going to deny you the resources upon which you have been relying to live. We don't care where you go as long as it isn't here." It is in fact a roundabout way of saying "We don't care if you live or die." Rooted in love or not, that is how you show someone you love them. It is one step away from putting a gun to your head. It may be their right to say that -again, their resources- but expecting to be trusted again after repeatedly saying that is just not going to happen. If you really think about it, you only did what they asked of you. They told you "we are going to cut off contact via taking the obvious risk of your demise if you do not do what we say." Your response was "sure, that sounds reasonable."
Was it mean to go as far as you did? A little... maybe. We all make mistakes and your parents obviously didn't know how far they were pushing you. Emotional awareness is always difficult and it gets harder the older you get, to say little of the added difficulty of a change in power dynamic as a child sets off on his own. You obviously let them know via your actions such as switching schools, getting a job, and moving out. I mean, I would qualify that sort of behavior -indications that you were pushing your life ahead without the resources they were counting on you needing- as a major sign that maybe they needed to make some sort of acknowledgement of the effect their words and behaviors had on you. Making a mistake is one thing. Refusing to fix or even acknowledge a mistake despite being informed of it sends a sign of a lack of remorse and a bigger sign that the behavior will likely repeat in the future.
For all that I've said here and before, I want to point out that I hope you let them back into your life in your own time. It's been eight years and although I am grateful every day that my mother is not in my life, I won't lie that there are times that it sucks. It's like a huge chunk of my life is gone. My wedding had my wife's family telling stories and recounting about how proud they are to have seen this little girl grow into a beautiful woman and the longest relationship from my side was a best friend I had met as a teenager. Even though some of my only positive memories of my mother in the few years before it all went south was of the dog we both raised, my mother will never see what I've done with the dogs I have now. Or when I'm sick in bed and all I want is for my mommy to bring me a cup of chicken soup, put on cartoons, kiss my forehead, and tell me that everything is going to be okay. Knowing that having her in my life would result in a constant danger to me doesn't change the lack of an emotional comfort that lucky people get to experience until their parents die. Doing it for the right reasons -as I think you have- only makes it hurt more.
It's all your prerogative though. Do you trust them? Can you trust them? Does that even matter? Is the 'juice worth the squeeze' so to speak? Questions only you can answer. This is your story, not your parents'. Getting to be a part of it is a privilege, not a right.
JakeGoodale So Jake. I am not going to defend your parents for threatening to cut you off unless you conformed. Nor will I criticize them. I will commend you for not prostituting yourself. Seems to me if you do not want to do things the parents' way, the right move is to do it your own way, but also pay your own way to do it your own way. So good for you.
But severing contact? Perhaps there is more to this story, but that seems a bit overboard. Make that way overboard. My sense of this is that your parents were expecting you to conform a certain way because of their subjective, good faith, albeit imperfect, vision of what was in your best interests for your life--and let's just assume they had it 100% wrong. Even if they are "wrong" about what is best for Jake, that hardly warrants the extreme of cutting off. Usually, when parents want a certain thing for a child the desire is rooted in love.
And what about all the good things they did for you? They gave you this life you now have. Doesn't that count for something? I don't get it. It is as if a person can do 10000 good things for another, but if the person does 1 bad thing in the eyes of the recipient, it is as if none of those other good things ever took place. Fair? Balanced? Objective? I don't see it.
Now let's just say you think your parents are terrible people and have done a long list of bad things--not just one bad thing. OK. I get it. But last I checked, 2 wrongs do not make a right. Adult children who cut off their parents in response to claims of wrongdoing by the parents become total hypocrites. You are responding to what you contend is dysfunctional conduct with yet more dysfunctional misconduct. And when that happens, wrong and right become quite skewed. Who is wrong and who is right no longer matters. And again, what about the love?
And lest you think that cutting off is not dysfunctional, I assure you that all of us are hard wired, as human beings in the 21st Century, to have our inner selves, our self image, our self esteem, our capacity for love and compassion, and our harmony with nature, to be rooted in family and parental approval. Deny it if you want, but that is your mind in denial, and you are denying something that you have no control over. We are all here from our ancient selves from centuries past. We have evolved and survived to get to this moment in time. You were once a Neanderthal Jake. That is you. That is me. That is all of us. Part of the basic nature of human beings is family. It's just the way it is. And it is bigger than you. All of this was decided long ago by our ancestors--those Neanderthal people that we evolved from. To survive, to get to this moment in time, they figured out, and passed along to us, that we have to be a family to survive.
My last point Jake is about this funny little equalizer that sits inside most of us called compassion. What about that? Jake, right now my guess is your folks are absolutely beside themselves. In emotional agony. They have lost their son. They feel as if their heart has been ripped out of their body through their throats. They are just sick with grief. Reconciliation brother. You must seek a path of peace with your parents. You absolutely have some say in that. You have some control over that. You can have a relationship with your parents that you contribute to defining regarding how close or how frequent you are in contact. But give them that. They indisputably deserve it. And when you do, you will have truly grown up. Then you will be truly independent. Until then, you are still in the process of growing up.
AListener JakeGoodale They definitely tried to force me to live the way they wanted out of love. However that is not what I wanted and it's my life, I will not be told what to do.
Love isn't enough. My parents showed they were unwilling to support me or be there for me when I needed them. I responded to dysfunction by shutting it down. It is not my job to fix my parents. If they wish to be in my life they can get their behavior under control and fall in line. If not then oh well. I agree family is important for survival which is why I cut them off. I need people that are going to support me if I ever run into trouble. My parents showed they wouldn't unless things were done exactly their way. By cutting them off, I was able to cultivate relationships with people that have proven records in helping me in the way I need when I have a problem.
My last point is: Good, they should be in pain and they will remain in pain until they shape up. I have one life, and I will not be controlled, manipulated, or told what to do.
So, have you given any support or comfort to your parents or is it just about what you think YOU are entitled to?
‘ You are able to cultivate relationships with those who have PROVEN themselves to you.’
Sounds conditional to me; you expect from others that which you are unwilling( or unable ) to give.
Life is give and take- not just about what is in store for YOU!
Parents are obligated to take care of children NOT to take care of ADULTS acting like children.
JakeGoodale AListener Where is the compassion in that attitude of yours Jake? Your response reflects a lack of basic human empathy. Very troubling. You state that it is "good" that your parents are in pain. Actually, it is never a good thing when anyone is in pain. Parents or not. Human beings should not think it is good that others are in pain, especially our family. Especially the people that gave us life and took care of us so that we could emerge from childhood and call ourselves "adults".
Parenting is complex. I have yet to meet someone who set out to be "the worst parent ever". It's just the opposite. Everyone deciding to have kids sets out with with the best of intentions. To be as good a parent or better than the parent he or she had. And then the kids come along....
Every parent makes mistakes. There is no perfect parent, and no child receives a perfect upbringing. Every parent has a vision of what his or her role should be, and how that role should be carried out. Every parent has a vision of what the child or children should be, and how that should be carried out. Then you add to those visions the "stuff" of life. Imperfections. Unresolved psychological issues. Maybe a thing with the bottle, or with porn, or save none of those off centered problems, maybe mom or dad or both are "too anal", too perfectionist, too this, too that. And we all bring that "too this too that" to our children, and the result is imperfections. And somedays we are in bad moods, not feeling well, and we have to make split second decisions that are not going to be correct 100% of the time.
And kids test. Kids test boundaries. Instinctively. Young children hear "no" and part of growing up is exploring the boundaries of "no". Etc.
All of this, and more, makes parenting a complex mine field for imperfect young parents to navigate their way through with the best of intentions.
You don't report a crime committed against you Jake. I won't defend sexual abuse by a parent upon a child. If your parents sexually abused you, even once, then by all means, cut them loose. If they physically abused you with beatings or whatever, I would not fault you for cutting them loose.
But here, according to what you report, their "high crime" is nothing more than trying to force you to live the way they wanted. Is that it?
If so, I find your response astonishing. It reflects a disturbed mind. Your response is excessive. Punitive. It is truly off center. It triggers thoughts of "crying over spilled milk" (and you are the one crying), "making a mountain out of a mole hill", and "sweating the small stuff".
Don't get me wrong here--I readily concede that parents who expect their young adult children to "live the way they want" have their heads up their backsides, unless we are talking about things like crime, drugs, reckless sexual behavior, or life endangering activity. If it is nothing more serious than parents wanting the young adult to be an athlete, but the young adult wants to be an artist--the parents are just plain wrong, and they are trying to stop a locomotive and it will never happen. I don't know the exact particulars of this "live the way they want" to which you refer, but if it is nothing more serious than you wanted to major in X and they wanted you to major in Y, contrary to anything or anyone else you read here, this is not a sufficiently large enough "wrong" to justify cutting your parents off.
Please consider this. I would also encourage you to talk to a therapist about your apparent lack of empathy.
JakeGoodale Good for you. Be your own man. Hope you're happy and feel like a hero. Show them they are nothing you can't handle. So you've put them in their places you should feel pretty good about yourself. Life should be wonderful for you. Such parents can be such a pain and a nuisance LOL.
Perhaps you could do all the above yet not cut them off? Was cutting them off necessary? If you've no regrets then I guess you did the right thing. By the way,why not get rid of that surname too in order for a clean cut? If I sound sarcastic do allow me to apologise.
The Scribe JakeGoodale I expect support from family and friends. That being said, I don't frequently need support or help for anything so when I do, I expect people to come up to bat for me. I needed money for college even after doing extremely well in high school, getting very good financial aid, and working 15+ hours a week during school. The money my parents offered me came with too many strings and frankly wasn't enough given their socioeconomic status and education.
That effectively showed where they stood when it came supporting me if I needed help now and in the future. So I cut them off. Life is hard and I can't be sinking resources into people that aren't going to be there for me when I need it. Cutting them off was first and foremost to punish them and secondarily to ensure I was giving people who genuinely care about me enough time.
JakeGoodale The Scribe
"So I cut them off. Life is hard and I can't be sinking resources into people that aren't going to be there for me when I need it. Cutting them off was first and foremost to punish them..."
All I can say is WOW. It looks like these days parents have to be PUNISHED if they don't meet their kids' expectations. The parent-child relationship is NOT a business deal. If life is hard for you do you think it was easy for them?
Leighann3 Hey Leighann, I don't know how long this has been going on. But one day you will get up and move on. I'm not saying he will never return,
But you will realize the energy that you are using for the pain that you are feeling is disrupting your life. It took me over a year, and just two weeks ago, my daughter had the baby and caused havoc. And still flew into see my other daughter and grandchildren. When I think of the disrespect and the upset that I and the rest of the family went through, I decided to move on and accept. Ever so often I feel the pain and then dismiss it. It's hard work but life s short and if our children can't accept us for whatever reasons they have, then we have to shut the door. One day he will need his family. He loses not you.
Then one day the door will open.
Wish you lucky and happiness and strength
First all my tag line sn't party C. It's Patty C. Don't know how to change it.
Just want to say I understand and have emphany for you Leighann3.
My daughter who I haven't seen in 7 months made an appearance at Christmas and I saw her for 2 hrs. She was on her laptop at that time telling me she had some work to do. Left to go to her sister's house and said she'd be back. Never saw her since. She has left town now to go home. I texted her at New Years to say Happy New Year and to wish her happiness. Didn't get a reply. Just texted her a few days ago to tell her of her Grandma's 91st Birthday party and never heard back. The party came and went and the night of the party she texts me ... Sorry I had some work to do and sick with a cold.
Now i'm not texting back. I hate that this has come to this. That I cannot talk to my daughter but she has disrespected me so many times that I am over it. I'm sorry she's not feeling good and of course I would like to say that to her. But why, she won't even text me back if I say anything. This is all awful that this has come about and I don't know what to do. I have got to save myself, I am under so much stress and crying a lot and my life is worth more than this. I hope we can all be strong go forward and praise God and love God and love everybody and I mostly want to love my child but she won't let me. What a sad world this is. I'm sorry I'm not being very encouraging but right now I have no encouragement.
RobertStrankman Party C
You're correct in mentioning 'the fade' strategy. Many young adults are using this tactic to shake off their parents bcs they see them as a nuisance. They want the relationship to die a natural death but is it really natural?
It is terrible for young people to treat their parents this way after having benefited from their efforts.
So, a little over a year ago, the day before my daughter's wedding, The real creature arose. Never in my life did I ever see someone change like my daughter.
It's too long of a story, so I will try and run through this quickly. Just before the wedding, she was moving to Florida to stay in my home.
This was the plan. With that, my Ex their father passes away. Mind you she hates the man. But was getting money. Ha jackpot, what does a 26 year old know. Finance, also thinks he hit the lottery. Anyhow, show the insanity she makes him part of them ceremony and prayer, which is fine. But then a table next to me with his candle and picture, then dances with her grandfather who is sick and has
cancer and puts up a video and dedicates it to her father. Mind you, she abused him when he was alive a make any sense.
So, after that, the party begins. She starts to accuse me of ruining her wedding, told me she has no respect for, don't care if it hurting
she feels nothing. And now lives somewhere else. went into a super large snowball. She hates her sister, accused her of stealing money from the estate that their dad left, accused the stepfather of the same, I was spared that conflict. Fixed that situation, she found something else. She hates her sister because I gave her everything and she treats her like a baby. LOL really. My older daughter had twins broke up with the father and needed help if it happened to her it would be the same. Tried coming past that little by little.
Stepdad went to talk to her, I spoke with her trying to break the ice. text her sister Merry Xmas, wanted to speak to nephews.
seems like we are getting somewhere. With that she goes into labor, yes she got pregnant. My other daughter goes to the hospital to surprise her and make the fight over. well, my daughter was treated with the most disrespect from the inlaws and was practically thrown out of the hospital. With this, I went ballistic. I gave up and told her to stay away I cannot deal with this pain and hurt any longer
I still kept to my plans to visit NY, and never saw my new Grandchild. So, I stayed with my twin grandchildren and my other daughter.
My other daughter text before I left, that we are a disgusting and sick family, she even called her grandmother yelling and demanding that she straighten us out.
Now there is a lot more that actually transpired between what I have written, but I would need many pages. I gave her a wonderful life
and this is the thanks as a parent. Does not even talk to her nephews? They are always asking for her.
My opinion, she has been brainwashed from her husband and their family.
I will not allow myself to get hurt anymore. She needs to be without to maybe see through the dark clouds.
Sounds like your love is unconditional and that's admirable. We all love our kids, however once they are adults it is not our job to heal their pain. The relationship is a two way effort so if it's only one person investing it can become unhealthy mentally and physically. But to each its own, more power to you and hope your strategy works for your circumstance.
We did our jobs, some more than others and some of us exhausted from all the rejection...but once again I'm sure you're speaking of your situation because everyone on this site has a story and can't take the same approach as it's no longer "ego or pride" but "dignity " - and mental well being. Everyone deserves to be happy....adult children and parents who've done their time alike. ?
beeceeme You are treading on very dangerous ground even if that ground is paved with good intentions. It is not your job to heal her pain. Her pain is her story and sole responsibility for handling it falls on her. It may not be her fault, but it is her responsibility. She can ask for help, yes. You are welcome to offer it. You raised her though, your job is done. Hopefully you taught her how to handle her pain, knowing when to handle it alone and when help is needed...and from whom.
I feel myself wanting to ramble, so I will do my best to keep this brief. If you go at the attempt to repair the relationship with a mindset of "it is up to the me as the parent to heal my hurting adult daughter" you run a very clear risk of driving her further away by not respecting her right to handle her problems in her own way. Granted, you didn't articulate what actions you planned on taking nor have you stated much of your story, so maybe I am just indulging my own past there. Just...it's okay to go at it very intensely from your perspective...maybe start off by letting her own that you're available and letting her make the next move.
Hello, I just found this site so am feeling compelled to write. It has been 4 years since my daughters removed me from their lives for good. I was married 24 years, always difficult since he was an alcoholic and manipulator, it has now been 14 years since the divorce. When my daughters were 3 and 6 I had breast cancer. My husband did not offer any support and as the girls got older they told me I blew it out of proportion and I needed to get over it.
While married my 2 daughters were belligerent and disrespectful to me at times with my husband standing idly by allowing this behavior while I tried to defend myself and understand their anger. I was the bread winner, provided structure and disciplinarian. At times they were very loving and close. Going though the divorce when they were 17 and 20 drove the wedge into the relationship more. On Mothers Day 2002 they came to my rental home yelling at me they were told by their dad I was not allowing him to buy a house and keeping them from having a place to live. He had wanted me to sign a legal document allowing him to buy a home while going through the divorce; stating I would not include this as marital property. Of course I would not since he had not budged on any of my requests. (I could write a book about his actions that created distance between me and my daughters.) My daughters and I did have some communication for several yearsbut then my daughters were told something I said and decided they no longer wanted me in their life.
I have been in counseling over the 4 years and have been gaining more peace and acceptance. Having a few good friend to talk with has been extremely helpful. At times it is very difficult and I tear up but now I am able to talk about this with composure at most times.
I am so glad to have found this group, there is nothing like having others with similar experiences.
Warm regards
Dear LovingMyself,
I had a similar situation and I feel your pain as I read your post. It helped me to know I'm not the only one getting through this set of circumstances. Thanks for posting here. I hope you will continue to post your progress because it is comforting to me and maybe others.
My ex tried to get me to sign off on his pensions (two) and sign off on the house during the divorce. He became livid, his eye bugged out with anger and became threatening but I held my ground. My sister during her divorce signed off on her house and in turn she became homeless. Her ex was fine and remarried but my sister Tina died from weak heart at 53.
I am so glad you held your ground, that is your investment if and when you need medical assistance.
I just found this site after googling 'estrangement' and read your comment first. It took my breath away, not only because of the cruel 'unfairness' but because it's so strikingly similar to my own experience. My ex was mentally broken, yet a savvy manipulator. Lived far above his means, took money from family members to live (had a Lexus, mercedes, and new flex cars, yet did not pay child support because he was unemployed). I always provided a nice house for my son to live, and paid my bills on a nurse wage without lots of frills but we managed. My son received a lexus from his dad for his birthday, and my son screamed at me because i wouldn't cover the insurance.
... I could go on and on but I know you have the picture.
Until I read your post I thought I had gone crazy and that there were things I could have done to prevent this. Now my son will not have anything to do with me because I'm not paying his college (he inherited almost $1 million from his father's estate).
It sounds like you have been through allot. It's a great decision that you were not bullied into signing that legal document to allow him to buy a house (using you) and it's awful that they all seem to be ganging up on you.
It sounds like you have a much bigger purpose in life, then them. Work on yourself, date, travel, volunteer, do some charity work with other children or teenagers..anything to take your mind off your disrespectful family & work on yourself. What do they say...YOLO (you only live once), & life is too short not to be enjoyed!!!
@TracyStrick
Why is your daughter not speaking to you, what is her reason?
I am a mum who is preparing herself ready for when her 22 year old daughter wants a relationship with me again Whilst waiting I decided that I would take a good look at myself, my personality, my reactions, my judgements, intact anything and everything that may be a part of my daughters estrangement. I could sit and say how I raised my kids, always at the party always playing, he, always encouraged but the truth is, all that doesn't matter, what matters is here and now my daughter isn't in my life and hasn't been for almost a year. I miss her like absolute mad
So I took a look at me. I made judgements about my daughters boyfriend. I forgot to hold my tongue - I realise now I have unresolved issues of choosing a boy who didn't treat me nice at all. I wanted to protect my daughter from the scoundrel I felt I saw. The truth is I forgot I had raised her and that she was a girl of substance and that I should trust her judgement not mine.
I made a huge mistake of talking about her to her younger sister. crap I talked to her, about her younger sister. i am surprised the younger one trusts me at all. It was disgusting to do that. I feel so ashamed - worse my mum had done it and it left me without trust. i cannot believe I feel so unkind and so stupid.
I was critical of my daughters clothes, especially the Bowling for Soup hoody - omg on this one I haven't changed I still feel the same. I have to work on this one :-)
I really want to have fully addressed myself when she comes back into my life. I don't want to ever let her down again.
I am sharing this just in case anyone decides that they might benefit from looking inwards like me. If my daughter decides she won't come back at leat I evolved
Siprendips Thank you for posting this. I hope your daughter does feel ready to work on a relationship with you because it seems that you are really trying.
For years, I tried to repair my relationship with my parents and talk about how the medical neglect (refusing to get me treatment for anxiety and punishing me for anxiety attacks & pulling out my own hair starting in elementary school), emotional abuse, and selfishness over my childhood and young adulthood hurt me. Long story short, I was diagnosed with stage IV cancer a month after my 23rd birthday and my parents refused to visit or offer any kind of financial, emotional, or logistical support. I was a few months into my first job out of college and needed so much help, only to find that the people who I should have been able to rely on in the scariest and most dangerous moments of my life weren't interested. I only lived a short, affordable flight away but rather than see their possibly-dying daughter, they chose to go on a two week vacation abroad during the most dangerous part of my treatment and refused to give me contact info for an emergency because "there's no way the trip will be cut short." And yet still, I tried to maintain a relationship despite being so very hurt by they way they treated me and slowly coming to realize that their actions during my treatment were emblematic of an abusive childhood that I had grown to believe was normal.
It took 5 years after my treatment to go no contact, and in those 5 years I really tried to have calm conversations talking to both of my parents about how our relationship was strained and the steps that needed to be taken to repair that. During that time, they minimized my emotions, made halfhearted non-apologies ("sorry for not being the parents you think you deserve"), and ignored my boundaries. I made mistakes too, to be sure, but at this point my biggest mistake was not cutting them out of my life the moment they showed no interest in me or my illness when I was sick.
When I finally had to let them go after another dramatically horrible interaction, they acted as if they had absolutely no idea why I'm upset. Not only have we had that conversation for years, but I also laid it out in my no contact letter, along with steps they could take to repair the relationship. But in their minds, they are the innocent victims. It kills me when I read through these comments because so many parents refuse to acknowledge that they are at least part of the problem.
I don't think my parents are capable of admitting fault and working on themselves to repair their relationship. Now they have two successful, well-educated, independent adult children who are estranged. It actually hurts me more than anything that they are so unwilling to lift a finger to have me back in their lives, preferring to live as martyrs to anyone who will listen. I of course don't know the backstory with your daughter, but I hope you are able to work toward some kind of understanding. It very much sounds like you are genuinely willing to put in the work that needs to be done. <3
It is that tough because today we are dealing with spoiled, self centered adults. It's all about them and respect has gone by the wayside.
I would have never spoken to my parents or treated my parents the way my son treats me. I am dealing with so many emotions from shock, disappointment, hurt to just feeling like this just can't be real.
My family is my life. It's everything to me. Maybe I am fooling myself to think that he has felt the same way all these years. Now that he has two precious little girls I would think he would realize the value of family.
mmof4boyz I think life is really difficult because it has become a blame culture - we trip up and before we are off the coffee shop floor we have googled "make a claim" we just don't want to accept responsibility for looking where we walk. What I notice is that when something goes wrong in peoples lives, rather than take responsibility and change its easier to blame the parents. Fred next door earns £120,000 pa. says John having skipped school on £20,000 - thinks to himself "if my mum had got me extra tuition I would ..."
In your shoes I would write a letter - just saying feelings, you can find them by googling "list of feeling words" say no blame just how you feel. I would then ask for a coffee shop chat putting the envelope on the table at the start saying "just in case this goes terribly wrong I through I would give you this for you to read later" ask him to put it in his pocket then start - the moment you tell him off, he will become defensive and when we become defensive we stop listening instead of
YOU NEVER VISIT SAY I MISS YOU AND THE KIDS AND I WONDER IF WE CAN SCHEDULE SOME DATES - ITS GREAT LOOKING FORWARD
I read "your family is your life" you sound just like me and its damn sad when our world is turned upside down. With no crystal ball we have no idea when or if it will change. Good luck
I for one decided that I will no longer be a victim and be disrespected by my son. I was reminded yesterday by Dr Phil that 'we teach people how to treat us' and that includes are children. When I look back I realize that I allowed my son and his girlfriend (who are both in their late forties) to disrespect me, I didn't speak up and that made me a door mat.
After feeling sad and then angry I have pulled myself up and have got my self respect back. I try not to think of him at all. I am going to change my will, leaving all to a charity.
We cannot allow our children or anyone else to treat us this way. I am sure we have all made sacrifices for our children and then this is how they treat us?
Yes it is hard to get to the place where I feel comfortable again, happy again, but I cannot allow my son or anyone else to rule my life for one more second.
violetlace
I totally agree don't be a victim!! You treat others the way you want to be treated. Tell us all; what else have these disrespectful children done to you?
Roadtohappiness I am not excusing my son's behavior but his girlfriend cannot keep any friends, rows with her mother and sister. She criticizes her sister and sometimes they don't speak for weeks. She wants to control everyone in her life. They were coming for a meal at my house and I cancelled because my husband wasn't well, she took this as an excuse and said it was because we didn't want them there. Unfortunately my son believes everything she says. She even convinced him that when he called us we thought he was a nuisance because we didn't answer the phone quick enough! My sister lives in another country and my son and his girlfriend went to stay for a vacation and she even rowed and insulted my sister! I could go on but I am sure you get the picture.
I do not see any hope of a reconciliation unless he leaves her and I really don't think that will happen.
To Violetlace, You seem like a nice lady. I have read what you wrote...the thing is you have to let your son go & make his own decisions, suffer his own consequences and experience life, it's a great way to grow up and learn! If you have raised your son right (& honestly the best you could), he will come around eventually if that is whats meant to be.
In regards to his girlfriend, it's none of your business weather or not she can keep/ make friends, if she gets along with her own mother or dislikes her sister. That is her business and to judge a person ( especially your sons girlfriend) like that or speak about her like that, is wrong. Your son is an adult...and if he chooses to believe all that she says, respect his decisions.
Ok, so even your sister has had a 'row' with this girl...that is a problem your sister deals with. Not you!.
Here is some really good advice- if you don't want to lose your son completely, respect his decisions. Don't talk about his girlfriend, or any future girlfriends badly.
I also have a son, he has had girlfriends (I secretly couldn't stand) and others I have completely adored.
My son & I have a fantastic relationship, he basically tells me everything, he asks for my advise, and I also tell him my own stories about my past good and not so good relationships. He listens to me & I also listen to him with a positive & respectful, non- judgemental attitude because I also Love my son..
Roadtohappiness Of course I have never mentioned any of the above to my son. I only told you about her actions so that you get the picture of what she is like. Since day one we have welcomed her and her sister into our home even though she has insulted us and tore away at our core values, which by the way are honorable and never pushed onto anyone.
I believe our mistake was always laying down for her to walk all over us. We did this because our son is super sensitive to any criticism but in spite of all that he has still chosen to ignore us.
I am not sure why you are on this forum as you don't seem to have any problems with your son so you do not understand that in spite of us loving our son and being respectful toward him he listens to his girlfriend who criticizes us constantly.
It is hard to respect his decisions when they are based on lies.
Yes, we do get to a point where it gets easier to live without them, holding on to our dignity rather than sticking around and getting treated like dirt.
Hang in there.
I cried through your whole letter. I feel exactly like you. Going through a similar experience. Just know you are not alone. That helps a bit I hope.
We must enjoy the last days of our lives. With or without our children.
Patty
discarded mom You absolutely do not have to tolerate abuse. Nobody deserves that. It ain't worth it when the cost of reconciliation is your own continued emotional health. No way. Worse if you are at the point where you feel the need to defend yourself. By that point the entire battle has already been lost because that's not how healthy relationships work.
But if any parent wants to speak to their estranged kid again, one of the earliest, most important, and painful steps is to suck it up and listen. Not because there's a 'right' and a 'wrong' but because being right is less important than being happy.
That said, I've read your posts and I'm gathering that your tale is a fair bit more complicated than those the article was referring to.
RobertStrankman discarded mom
I agree with Robert. Kids,even though they are already adults,do not understand that winning the battle is not the same as winning the war. In the first place why go to war with your own parents?
I notice many kids today push their parents into corners where either they have to eventually turn around to fight or simply face the walls.
The Scribe I find your post fascinating.
"Kids, even though they are already adults, do not understand..."
They are adults. Plain and simple. As far as law and common society are concerned they are expected to be able to understand everything needed to make it on their own in the world they live in. In situations of estrangement they clearly do. Saying anything to the contrary is not only demonstrably wrong, but I would describe as cruel in denying someone the common courtesy of expected social knowledge granted to any stranger just because they happen to be offspring in conflict with their parents.
"In the first place, why go to war with your own parents?"
Why go to war over personal conflict with anyone? If someone doesn't respect personal boundaries, that's a good reason. If I tell someone repeatedly 'Please do not discuss my affairs with your friends' and they talk anyway, that's a reason to be more adamant about that boundary and to establish a consequence for crossing it. 'If you do not stop discussing my affairs with your friends, I will stop discussing my affairs with you' for example. That sort of behavior wouldn't be acceptable in a friend. Why are adults expected to tolerate it from their parents?
No, I don't think these issues are unique to the current generation. I think they only appear unique because social media essentially forces both 24/7 access to virtually anyone we want and gives a larger support circle to people who would otherwise feel beholden to a family that makes them unhappy. It's easier to act on the desire to cut your parents out of your life when your social circle includes more people who know the person you choose to be, not the person your parents decided you are.
RobertStrankman The Scribe
Robert,
I'm sorry. I'm writing from an oriental point of view. Our background are very different. I was brought up in a traditional chinese home (I'm overseas-born/bred chinese). You know confucianism - filial piety,ancestor-worship etc. We must pay homage to our parents/ancestors but our kids today are well,so different from us even though they were also brought up in traditional homes. They don't believe in karma ,fate whatever. I guess it's the mass media,the internet and cross-cultural influences.
The Scribe Obviously there's a major difference in thought here and I don't mean cultural. You seem to look fondly on traditions -there are many cultural traditions in America, though few significant ones are older than maybe six generations- and I look at them as something that we have a choice to embrace. Many cultures have a form of tight-knit loyalty and honor for family built within them. The story of Romeo & Juliet wouldn't carry as much weight if there wasn't the 'taboo' nature of disobeying our parents implicitly understood before the story even begins. If you were to watch the movie starring Johnny Knoxville from last decade (the one whose title is a common term for donkey) there was a particular stunt the infamous Steve-O refused to do because he didn't want his dad to be that disappointed in him. I'd venture to say that it is a virtually universal cultural trait.
Several months ago I articulated the reasons I dismissed that tradition; my mother was usually emotionally abusive and we had old-fashioned personality conflicts when she wasn't. Even in my culture I've encountered many people who expected me to just deal with those issues because 'she's your mother.' At what point within your culture would you consider it acceptable to dissolve that relationship, knowing that at the end of the day my mother's biggest crime was simply being a mean-spirited person who consistently made me miserable?
RobertStrankman The Scribe
Hi Robert,
I had never and would never consider cutting off ties with my parents but if my siblings were mean-spirited I would. Today's young adults in my community would nonchalantly cut off their parents for maybe 10% of your mom's meanness. therefore,I do not know who is meaner - the parents or the children.
RobertStrankman The Scribe "dissolve that relationship"? Your choice of words makes it sound as if the parent child relationship is a business organization. Or a marriage.
I think it is acceptable for people--adult children included, parents included--to pull back from relationships that have become so bumpy with conflict and disagreement that space and time are needed. The choice to pull back from relationships is as much about mutual respect as it is common sense. But after we have given ourselves some space and time, those same barometers of mutual respect and common sense suggest that we circle back around and at least try, anew, to seek a path of mutual understanding, reconciliation and resolution.
I understand the picture of reconciliation and resolution will vary from family to family, person to person. There are some really disturbed people living in our world who simply cannot function within a normal, emotionally healthy adult relationship. Were I the adult child of such a parent, I would maintain a reasonable level of physical and emotional distance, but I would still have some relationship (and that can be as little as the occasional card at Christmas and birthdays, or whatever), and I would be clear and direct as to my reasons for keeping the distance I chose. Wish the parent well, put positive energy out towards the parent, but keep a safe distance.
And yet, for so many grieving parents here, the adult child has chosen to estrange himself or herself from the parents, and the reasons are an absolute mystery, because the adult child declines to explain, believing the parent "should know". For so many of these estrangements, the choice to estrange is as dysfunctional as anything the adult child believes the parent is guilty of, making the whole mess an act of hypocrisy. Dysfunction meets yet more dysfunction, and "who is right" becomes so skewed that if "apologies" are due, they are so very mutual.
In my view, estrangement is a dysfunctional and toxic--most of the time (with very few notable exceptions) as the claims the adult child makes against the parent that lead to the estrangement. It is a dysfunction meets dysfunction scenario. Hypocrisy in full bloom. And really--just what does it accomplish, most of the time? What I see is a lot of negative energy. A lot. Adult children who are not truly happy because of the path they have chosen for themselves. And just look at the numbers of grieving parents on this site...at some point, this estrangement thing has "gone viral". Absurdly so.
You suggest parents should apologize. For many, apologies are vastly over rated. They are just words after all. Some people apologize without ever meaning it. Some of us never apologize for anything, and yet our actions speak to regret in our past choices. Sure, in theory, every parent should "apologize" for every imperfection in attempting to deliver the perfect childhood to every child who is now an adult that did not receive that illusory "perfect childhood". Every parent makes mistakes in the course of parenting. I have never met an adult aspiring to have children who was planning to be the worst parent ever. It is always just the opposite. Every person starting a family sets out with the best of intentions, usually to be as good or better than the parenting he or she received. And then life happens, and as we are all flawed beings, we make mistakes ing life.
So, using your logic, then every adult child should apologize to the parents for not being the perfect kid. For occasionally making mistakes, whatever they might have been.
If the playing field of relationships is to be level, based upon mutual respect, then apologies are owed all around--if apologies are your thing. It takes 2 to tango after all. Show me a parent that is guilty of this or that, I will show you a kid that is guilty of this or that. We will both be pointing to the same family. We are, all of us, flawed, imperfect beings, and living a real life is as much about learning to tolerate the imperfections of our lives--which happens to include flawed people, some of whom are in our families, as much as we need to learn to tolerate all other imperfections we encounter.
Now if the adult child's complaint is physical, sexual or drug abuse by the parents, then I am all for the adult child drawing a line in the sand and saying to the parent, you are on your own. But again, direct statement of intentions and reasons. Orally or in writing or both.
AListener As I said when I first started commenting on this subject part of my intent was to get into a little healthy debate with people who are predisposed against going no contact rather than the supportive folk I've surrounded myself with (and tried to be). For participating in this I do have to thank you.
My language choices on the subject of my own estrangement tend to be cold and distant. Part of this is the medium. Given how many estranged parents are on this site, the fact that this is a very easy site to find when googling 'estranged adult children,' and the fact that I'm not trying to blame any strangers I'm doing my best to avoid using emotionally charged language. The other reason is that I have the advantage of years in reflection to be able to articulate synonyms for the breakdown of the parent-child relationship. For one, we aren't talking about 'parent-child relationships.' We are talking about 'adult relationships between one person who raised the other.' That is a very key difference because there is a dynamic that changes significantly when someone starts supporting themselves and is no longer dependent on mama for survival.
The term "entitled" is bandied about quite frequently from the parents on this site and other sites bemoaning the selfishness of whatever generation is being blamed for the antagonism. I hate to use it, but it is the only one that seems to apply in a point I want to make: parents are not entitled to a relationship with their adult children. If there is a healthy relationship it is a gift to be treasured as all healthy relationships are. But having a relationship with parents is not a requirement for a happy life, nor is making some token attempt at a relationship with someone who causes misery. Is that the cost of being fed and clothed as a kid? "So, I'll make sure you don't starve or freeze to death...but in return, I get to be a controlling monster to you when you're 25 and you just have to take it!"
But why go so far as estrangement then? The examples on this site don't tell much of a story, mostly because they are from the people who want the relationship and don't get why they don't have one. Besides, we don't exactly have tons of parents and estranged children discussing things, so we only get one side of the story. I can only speak towards my own experience and the experience of the small number of self-aware adults I have had the privilege of speaking to with similar stories. And from that side the reasons are given well in advance, they just aren't listened to. "Mother, I really don't like it when you talk about my hair. Please let it go." "Stop putting down my career. I'm working hard and making a living doing it." Who would tolerate a friend who behaves that way even when asked to stop? Who would tolerate a spouse who is a font of put-downs? These things seem so small, I know, but they are behavioral warnings that somehow get ignored when adult offspring bring them up. The mere act of ignoring them is one of the most cruel behaviors at all in denying someone's basic ability to choose how they feel to another's words or actions. These aren't about flaws or imperfections, that's a matter of systemic emotional cruelty. To quote Louis CK "If you hurt someone, you don't get to decide that you didn't."
What is worse is that in the case of emotional abuse there comes a point when even asking someone to change their behavior becomes an opportunity for more abuse, often in the form of old-fashioned gaslighting. "I really wish you would stop making comments about my weight." "I never said anything about your weight!" When there's already a history of that kind of behavior in childhood giving a reason can be actually dangerous. How do you use words when those words can become the very weapons used against to hurt you?
That said, recognizing the effects of personal behavior in others is a kind of emotional intelligence that everyone struggles with. That is okay. That's where the apology comes in. You're right in that apologies are often meaningless, either through a lack of sincerity or the presence of deliberate acts of sincerity. When estrangement has already happened and the reasons are unknown actions aren't available. Even the right words aren't available, because what is right isn't even clear. An apology is all that anyone can do in the beginning. Not an apology for being an imperfect parent and making mistakes, an apology from one adult to another that says "I am willing to own whatever I did that hurt you."
As for your 'every adult child should apologize for being an imperfect child' line, apologies and acts of contrition are actually a part of growing up. Mistakes are made, learned from, punished as required, and that in turn creates a person. Emotionally aware adult already have apologized for being imperfect behaviors in their youth. They did so by growing up.
At the point of estrangement, the playing field is not level. At all. There's no sense of mutual respect or understanding. There's no sense of mutuality period. It is one party that wants a relationship and one party that does not want a relationship. It's a really cold thing to say. Embracing it is the only way the party that wants the relationship is going to get one. This is not about who made mistakes, whose imperfections were worse. This is about someone saying "I want a relationship and I'm willing to make reasonable concessions and be wrong about important things until I can repair it." If it takes two to tango, it takes one to turn on the stereo and let the other person lead until they both find the beat.
Speaking from the heart here: I don't care if my mother thinks I was imperfect. I don't care if she thinks I was the most selfish person who ever lived. Her opinion of me carries no weight because she carries no weight in the life I have created without her. I try to better understand my memory of her as a matter of my own personal growth and as a matter of making myself stronger for those I love and who love me back. I have no impetus to subject myself to her uncanny ability to find whatever emotional trigger she could and potentially damage all of the progress I have made on myself in the years since. Indeed I have a stronger moral obligation to protect myself from that situation. The fact that there are people around me who would pick up the pieces when she inevitably broke me apart means that they deserve to not have to. Even if she were entitled to any part of me, they are entitled to every part of me.
My daughter and her husband and my granddaughter moved in with us because of financial hardship. I thought things were fine. one morning i noticed the space heater was on all night and i asked my daughter not to leave it on. That lead to an explosion. My daughter started mouthing off to me. i listened to her but didn't hear anything except the smart ass teenager i had dealt with in the past. i responded but don't remember what i said i know i referred to her youthful mouth. she got very upset and they left i thought they were going out for the day to cool off night came and they didn't return they didn't come back the next day either. i started to worry but knowing my daughter she was out to prove a point. then her husband showed up to move there belongings. he wouldn't tell me anything now i am angry the disagreement wasn't enough to cause such a response i tried to reach her/no response i found out they were at her brothers home that was okay with me
a week later i heard they moved again now i am wondering how they are going to afford it, after all they were i my home because they had no funds. but if this is what they want ok..
i tried and tried and tried to talk to my daughter. i was missing her and my granddaughter. then she text me and said as long as we had a bad and unhealthy relationship she would never allow me to see my granddaughter. she is 2 and i have been with her almost everyday since she was born... i love her with all my heart. she is my joy. i was heartbroken i cried and cried for days. I ended up at the drs because i couldn't handle the situation. i tried to talk to my son.. he sided with his sister and refused to talk to me... i honestly do not know what i did to cause this!!!!!!
to make matters worse a week after she texted i received another text with her telling me she was diagnosed with stage 4 lymphoma. nothing more just that!
i have no contact with her, i don't know where she moved and i have been completely shut out!!!! my son has also shut me out. What do I do now?
@Ellvicfoy I completely agree with what RobertStrankman has commented. This argument was not over the space heater. You need to get over her teenager ways. It is normal for teenagers to get angry, gob-off, sometimes disrespect, argue with parents. It's how they learn, grow up, it can be a hormonal growing thing (apart of brain development). And yes, some teenagers are worse then others. The thing is she is not a teenager now, she sounds like a person stressed, with a young child, with financial problems which can also cause marriage problems.
Learn to let some issues pass, turn a blind eye to things sometimes...some issues just aren't worth the problems. Sometimes the BEST decision a person can make is to do nothing, just agree, or say nothing.
In regards to talking to your daughter again, you need to apologise. Listen to your daughter, go out for coffee, take her shopping (if you have the money), enjoy her & take time to do all those fun mother and daughter things you were blessed to have. Concentrate on building a relationship with her...and not with the decisions she has made. Focus on "her" as a beautiful, wonderful person, with an awesome future ahead and be positive. It sounds like she really needs you. ?
Ellvicfoy This is a rough story to read, no matter how entirely not rare it is nowadays. But...you asked "what do I do now?" and as someone who cut out his mother in a not entirely dissimilar way, I can at least give you an idea where to start.
The issue that caused your daughter to sever a relationship with you wasn't the issue of a space heater. You said it yourself, you didn't hear anything but a smart ass teenager. But she isn't a teenager (or if she is, she is adult enough to make it without you). This small disagreement was very likely the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back, a small disagreement that merely exemplified the larger issues you have had with your children for a long time. There is an unhealthy dynamic there that your daughter just decided wasn't worth it.
What can you do? Well, the best place to go from here begins with a sincere apology. Not for any particular action -you don't know what you did and you can't until she tells you (if she even knows yet)- but for merely hurting her. If she responds at all, listen to what she has to say calmly and without judgement. If she sets a boundary, don't cross it. Whether you think she is right or wrong, her feelings for the relationship she has with you are her's and her's to act on.
While I am on the subject, your issues with her belong to you as well. You get to decide how you want to proceed with her. I only tell you apologize because it appears you're the one who wants the relationship. If she has something you want then you have to play by her rules to get it. At least until the relationship is strong enough to bear a disagreement. What is acceptable behavior from her is for you alone to decide. Obviously joint and separate counseling would help to speed the process along...or at least give you both some growth and understanding for other relationships should things go south and stay that way.
I really hope things get better for you and your kids.
I found this article helpful today. My 17 year old son has cut me off completely. He's even gone as far as to have me contacted by the police and told not to contact him! I have been totally understanding of him moving out but to be so cold toward me is beyond the comprehension of not only myself but my entire family and all our friends are stunned as well. I've been seriously driving myself crazy with this. I worry that I'm changing into a different person. I have 2 small kids at home still and sometimes I worry they will hate me too one day.
I'm cutting out friends, I really don't feel like doing anything social anymore and that is not my personality. I went from feeling pretty confident with myself and my parenting skills to now I can't even make a decision about dinner without feeling inadequate! I cry so easily and get angry almost as quickly. I hate this person I feel I'm fighting off inside. The doctor just wants to prescribe pills and this is not going to solve my heartache... Thanks for your article. :)
Brokenmom1 I'm so sorry to hear your story. I have been told so many times that kids brains do not fully mature until @26. Then add teenage angst and their desire for independence. It can be a real challenge. It is very hard to detach yourself from the child you have raised. For your own peace of mind and (hopefully) just for now, that sounds like what you might need to do. In these situations, as we all know very well, you do not have many choices. My teenage son was absolutely miserable and sometimes even dangerous towards me. I am still somewhat incredulous that my older daughter has cut me off, for the last few years. She is 28 and moved to Cali, with my 22 y/o son. He recently decided I treat him like a child and haven't done anything for him in the last 4 years. Hard to believe, when he lived with me and didn't work or go to school for 2 of those years. I am sure his sister has a lot of influence. I was worried that one or both might have been in that horrible fire in Oakland. With only a phone number for my son, I called yesterday and left a message that was partially cut off. When, I called back he answered and hung up on me mid-sentence. At least, I know he's alive.
I have cried a river of tears and little things set me off. It's easy to get depressed and I am usually a very happy person. I try to not isolate myself but that isn't always doable. One thing I focus on is my health and try to take as good care of myself as possible. Doing things for other people also really helps.
The fact that you have two younger children will hopefully be a good distraction for you. Please remember, YOU have not done anything wrong. As good parents, we commit from the get go to do the best we can do. A teens perspective is typically very selfish and all about them. Try to do little things to make yourself feel better. And continue to love and care for your two little ones, as best you can. They need your love. No one can predict what will happen in the future. Don't give up hope. I'm sure your son knows you're there for him and will realize he needs you and his family.
@Spirited Lady
Very good advice, feels like my story.
@Dannedifido
I'm sorry to hear your story, hang in there and stay strong. As for contacting your mother, a card or quick note may suffice as it's a very delicate situation and is a true sorrow for you mom, losing her younger sister, your aunt. Take care, hope you reconnect and it goes well when the time is right!
I am a man with autism, estranged from my family. and my extended family. If i had the choice i would only be estranged from my mother, as my estrangement stems from abuse suffered at her hands. But i cannot be in contact with any member of my family as it is seen as a crack to put a wedge in and force me to reconnect. I have set out my terms for re-connection clearly. Acknowledgement of what she did. An apology for any of what she did. Or an admission of mental illness and a diagnosis process. I have three sisters, i do not speak to. no fault of their own. They just move in the same waters as my mother. so she senses it and dominates the process. I have recently heard my auntie has died. It is a shock. My last interactions with her were bad. She was admonishing me for estranging myself, she refused to accept that my course of action was justified. and refused to see my assertions of abuse as anything other than excuses for my laziness. I stopped checking for any level of communication from any family member following my failure in this interaction and my next true contact was to say she is dead. the funeral was yesterday. Thought you should know.
I have to speak to my sister or my mother today. and express my sorrows. But i am not feeling sorrow. I am feeling fears. I am terrified of making this call because it is breaking my rules in light of the problems between me and my mother. her youngest sister died three days ago. I wouldn't put it past her to use that to it's fullest advantage as a guilt stick against me. trying to wrap me round her finger. pull me towards melee range again.
i'm stopping here. otherwise i will write forever.
Don't call. Don't set yourself up like that. Mail a beautiful card. Or a beautiful arrangement to the house.
You are in control of who hurts you.
Dannedifudo
So sorry about your Auntie. My sympathies. I understand why you feel afraid. How sad that we must fear contact with the people in our life who we believed should love us. I hope your contact with your sister and mother went well.
Dannedifudo
Hi Dan,
If it's that bad as described in your second paragraph I don't see why you needed to express your "sorrow" when you don't feel any. All you feel is fear. Therefore,do not give in to the social pressure. Simply ignore. Good luck and take care.
What about the situation of an adult son who chooses to distance himself from his father that has been emotionally unavailable since Day One? Here is the specific situation: Father and mother are married, and still are today. Father was emotionally unavailable, Father and Adult Son never related to each other very well (different personalities and interests), and it bothered the adult son deeply during his childhood. As an adult, the adult child has made overtures and tried to form bonds through mutual interests. Recently, out of the blue, Father excoriates Adult Son over a purely trivial matter (eating leftovers). It occurred to Adult Son at that moment that Father's instinct was to be cruel and mean, and not to take a step back before speaking (which is reminiscent of Adult Child's childhood). Adult Son does not want to completely cut off ties to Father, as this would cause heartache for Mother and his younger Adult Sibling, but the Adult Son does want to spare himself any future frustration by attempting to spend time and bond with Father. This event showed the Adult Son that under the surface, Father still does not think of Adult Son as somebody who deserves respect and love.
More background information: Adult Son is a successful attorney in his late 20's, and is not a burden on anybody. In this case, is it really Adult Child's anxiety that is causing him to consider this course of action, or have Father's actions alienated Adult Son to a point of critical mass? Why should Adult Son want to continue attempting to foster a Father-Son relationship when Father clearly thinks of his son as somebody who is not worthy of respect and love? Adult Son is not angry about this; rather, Adult Son has no feelings at all toward Father at this point. Adult Son feels that keeping a distance between his Father and himself is the only constructive way of moving forward with his life. Please provide your views about this hypothetical.
@LK
Hypothetically I think adult son should tell his father how he feels. Leave the ball in his court. The father really needs to hear how his words are creating hurt. If he blows that off then I think creating distance is the best thing. BTW- I truly am moved that you are considering the feelings of your mother and younger sibling. You sound like a very caring person.
@Rachael
So sorry Rachael. I hope you visit went well. Your son is very young and I wonder if the thought of paying for college is overwhelming to him.
We have been estranged from my stepdaughter for five years.
We have always loved her and have always wanted her in our lives. We tried to
be there for her, but the relationship was very one-sided. She set the
boundaries and if you stepped beyond them she erased you from her life. The
most recent occurrence was because we expressed concern for her and some disturbing
comments/pictures she was posting on social media. Because of this she became
very angry and cut off her relationships with everyone on the paternal side of
her family. My husband tried to make contact, to no avail. His ex-wife even
reached out to him about 1.5 years into the estrangement to let him know that
she disagreed with their daughter, but was not willing to defy trust or put her
relationship with their daughter in jeopardy so the estrangement continued.
That is up until two weeks ago when my stepdaughter decided to end her life
because “no one loved her or ever would love her”. So this is it. How does this
happen? I’ve been through so many emotions, but I keep getting stuck in anger.
I want to forgive, but I can’t get past the fact that when we were giving her
what she wanted she would have us in her life. How selfish is that? And now she
committed the ultimate act of selfishness by hurting everyone with whom she has
ever developed a relationship. I am really struggling to get past this and the
endless worry over my husband’s and son’s recovery. I might come off as
unfeeling, but this is after five years of hurt and pain and now this.
Thank you so much.
Reading this has helped a lot.
My daughter aged 35 has decided to sever contact with me.
Her brother took his own life at 17 over 14 years ago.
I separated from my husband 8 years ago, My family has disappeared.
I'm lucky to have very good friends but I'm missing my daughter and 2 grandchildren.
@mojo
It doesn't matter why your daughter has decided to separate herself from you it is still a shame that she is doing this. I have a situation with my 3 children. One is controlled by a boy friend who has decided from the first couple months that he didn't like us and hasn't spoke to us since or been around us even for Holidays. My daughter lives a few blocks from me and has my only grandchild that I am allowed to see once a week for babysitting and holidays. This daughter has picked this boyfriend over her family. She also stays away from extended family too. This has put such a strain on our family and other siblings. They love their sister and when they come into town they don't tell us and stay over that daughter's house. We are left out and we feel like outcasts. This is such a sad time of our lives and we should be reaping the benefits of bringing up good children and we aren't. I cry a lot and try to be happy but every day this is confronting me of our fractured relationships. I am 63 now and want to live my retirement out in peace and happiness and I can't seem to do this. I do go to therapy and it has helped but I am still deeply sad. I love my children dearly and want to spend time with them. I want a relationship with them and know what is going on in their lives. I pray someday this changes and they realize we won't be here forever. Before it's too late.
@mojo I am sorry for loss of your Son and the loss of your current situation. You have suffered many loses over the years and I have empathy for the comment of your family has disappeared. My daughter who is 32 and has lil girl 6 & boy 2 has cut off all ties from me. To the point she cut all ties with anyone who had anything to do with me. My 81 yr old mother was told in a letter that my daughter was unable to communicate with her because I would use my mother to get to her. She change her contact info phone email
And block all social media & recently quit long term jobs & moved to different state. One of her pet peeves was me not backing off and researching or finding a way to contacting her. She my daughter amI just loose all contact and not even know where she is? So I did my digging and know city and state she in but haven't contacted or let her know I know where she is. I made the decision I going to back off and not contact her as hard as it is. The hardest is as you said I not only miss my daughter but also my grandchildren. It a very empty feeling at family time to not have a family.
Live2bnana
I am so sorry, You are not alone. Trying times we are having with families being distant and apart. No contact. I didn't have contact with my daughter for 6 months. Very sad. Hang in there and pray.
I wish I knew the answer why adult children do this to us their parents, but I don't. I haven't seen my son in over a year and I have no idea why he won't answer e mails or letters. At first I pleaded with him to tell me why and to get in contact. He never did. At first I was sad, then angry. Being angry made me strong and one day I decided I would not beg or plead anymore. So I have now cut off all contact in the way of birthday cards etc.
I decided he was not going to mess up my life, yes of course I think about him sometimes but I am, for the most part staying strong in my resolve to get on with my own life and not let him bring me down.
He has to be the one to contact me and his Father.
This may seem harsh but it is the only way I can cope and I have to say it is working. I think of him less and when I do there is still some anger there but this just spurs me on to tread my own path and enjoy my life.
He has left me with no other choice.
Violetlace,
I have done the same as you. For me, it is three adult children. I know the relief it brought me not to continue the contact. I don't know about you but it seemed to me that with each contact(birthday, holiday, etc.) I felt I was just playing into their intentions to make me feel more rejected and maybe confirming that I needed their relationship more than they did mine. I, too, was angry but my anger subsided a lot when I decided to stop contacting them. I think I was angry at myself for letting myself be treated so unlovingly, even disrespectfully. I believe now, what has come to light in me is that, after two and a half years of refusing to communicate with me, they must know the reality of estranging me as their mother. Though it grieves me, they must realize what it is like to really live without your mom. When I think of them, usually first thing in the morning, I pray for them to come to the truth and agai, be loving and respectful. Yes, like you, Violetlace, they will need to contact me.
lcjantzi I'm going through the same emotions in regard to being rejected and disrespected as a parent. I grieve daily for the loss of my daughter that is very much alive and expecting her first child. One morning I woke up happy because I had dreamt that we were laughing and joking together as we always had, and the happiness quickly turned to sadness and anger.
I'm really getting tired of being this pathetic wimp, it's so not in my nature.
@nverwillgetit
Hang in there, that is a long time and my heart goes out to you. It's time to wipe yourself ipoff, take different approach and survive this pitfall, don't allow yourself to beg or chase anymore. That is part of the problem, find meaning in life...before her you were you..I'm sure your husband would want you to live...get some help to get you out of that rut. Your daughters loss, your gain to savor what God gave you...give that love you can't give to your grandson to other children who need attention via volunteer work.
To: TX_Ang
Thank you for your empathy. It felt good to receive at this time of year. I'll share this: As the holidays roll in, I'm trigger more than usual but it's been nearly 3 yrs. and my sorrow and grief, which changed to anger, depression, sadness and now I seem to see things more objectively. Time, a little therapy, prayer find me less and less enmeshed with them and more becoming my true self.
As an adult observing three other adults, I am at peace with the fact that they have some things to learn without me and ther's no guarantee that they will. However, that helps me to resist anticipating and making up scenarios in my head. I'm simply accepting their choices, given up defending myself and accept that things might not turn out the way I want them to.
I live two-days drive away from them and this is somewhat helpful. But I have family that I see from time to time who use my situation to try and hurt me. My oldest stays in contact with them.
So I thank you again for your empathy, TX_Ang. This is not an easy thing to navigate but I want to be sure to get all the good I can from this heartbreaking situation that I can. I'm trusting and resting in this place...
My son left home 6 years ago and has never returned. A month after he left I received 3 intense emails listing everything I had done wrong. Of course there are kernels of truth in what he said. I now only contact him with essential information as he requested and have seen him only 4 times over these years at his new abode. He's now at college in America, his dream, but there's been problems with health and depression / psychotic episode which meant he took a year off. He has now returned and I just pray his health keeps on an even keel. The doctor has also mentioned autism to him which may account for his continuing infrequent contact. I so pray for a reconciliation with him.
Signed a heartbroken mum.
Dear Heartbroken mum,
It must be painful to be apart from your son when it would seem that he needs you most. I'm am saddened by the way he "critiqued" you in his letters. My goodness, of course there were grains of truth but can't he understand the overall love that you had for him? That seems to be what these adult children can't deduce from their experience with us as their parent. I read this time and again here. I hope his mental health improves and that he will turn to you and realize the love that he has missed , that has been there waiting/longing for his return. . .
So glad I came across this article as I've been searching the internet for similar situations to mine to find out how to deal with my daughter shutting me out 3 weeks ago via text. She is 29 and pregnant with her 1st child, and she is my only child, so I am devastated and heartbroken. I am also scared to death of missing out on the birth of my grandchild. I'm unable to sleep and have random crying fits as I'm fighting falling into a deep depression.
Her last words to me were "not all people mix well", and that she didn't want the baby shower that my mother and I were planning on having for her. Her reasoning was based on a party that we had at our home about 10 years ago, when my then boyfriend now husband was still drinking but is sober now, got into a fight with a friend of hers that was also drinking and being aggressive.
I initially thought she was joking, and when I realized that she wasn't, it was too late to reason with her. Maybe she felt overwhelmed by the shower we were planning because it was going to be more of a party at a venue with friends and family. Her mother-in-law is having a proper shower for her at a friend's home, which is huge and in an exclusive neighborhood. I was never even sent a "save the date" card like her friends were so I don't think I was going to be invited to it anyway.
It seems that she is embarrassed by who we are, as well as our family and friends. I'm Hispanic and her father is White as is my current husband, and her husband is White too, but comes from a more prominent family with a much higher income than us. We're just comfortable and live well below our means, so we don't drive brand new fancy cars or have a huge home. Also, another point of contention for her is that my husband is in a motorcycle club which she views in a negative way.
I've sent her texts letting her know that I love her and that I'm sorry if she's mad at me, and that I hope she is doing well. I am so sad, and grieving over the grandchild I may never get to meet.
TX_Ang
I'm so sorry your going thru this as well....my daughter of 36 has been estranged from us for the last 13 yrs....she pretty much accused me of being the worst mother on an 14 hrs drive in the middle of winter right after Christmas that one fateful year 13 yrs ago.....during that time I went into a deep depression for 6 years, then I started living again, during those years she finished her University in Psychology, got married, bought a house, had my only grandchild I will ever have, she's 2 now and I haven't even met her....my daughter refuses to talk about what made her say those things, like you we are not well off, we actually struggled, she never brought her friends over at the house, they were all doctor's kids, well to do, so that's where we get the feeling she was ashamed of us. She stayed at her University town and she fashioned herself a life without her parents in it. I had three children, 2 girls and a boy being the baby. My son died tragically 3 years ago in a drowning accident, he went missing for a week before his body was recovered he was only 26. My eldest daughter had also cut herself off from him as well, they were estranged for more than 3 years when he passed. Now here is my middle daughter who absolutely adores her eldest sister, she can't be herself it seems around her older sister, and she has been caught in the middle more than once, so now I try not to allow that to happen, but it's hard as she takes her sister's side in the sense that she is justified in keeping the family apart and that is what I have a problem.......did I mention my estranged daughter's husband (that I have never met) has passed away a month ago of cancer he was 37....now according to my baby girl she has also stopped all contact with the mother in law, the other grandmother....in her will she has left custody of her daughter to friends, and know that we both have huge families, she didn't even give custodial rights to the only family member my daughter, because she knows we would get to know her ..... because of the loss of my son my heart has literally shattered twice.......I'm trying to rebuild my life I'm very lucky to have my husband by my side in which we just celebrated our 30 wedding anniversary......sometimes it's good to just walk away and the best thing you can do is to take care of yourself and keep on living.
@Tx Ang. I feel really bad about your struggle and hope you're coping a lot better than your original post. I too am Hispanic married to white male, have one daughter, however, two grandchildren later. On the opposite side of spectrum strong bond with 9 yr grandson and love one year though didn't get that close. They moved far away and she cut me off. She left with her far from prominent boyfriend and since then she didn't even say I don't want you in my life. She just doesn't reply, she has slowly not let us talk to our grandkids.
So my point, the relationship can be slow death of great magnitude because with mine I had memories or if she told me nine yrs ago, I wouldn't have to hurt from something I only dreamed would be ((being an involved grandparent). It's a two way street, it will be her loss. You see also my mom passsed away last year so don't have that either.
How I get through it? Take one day at a time, pray hard, play even harder, surround myself with loved ones, cry it out when needed but not wallow in it and just Gratitude for all I do have. Whatever you or your spouse did that wasn't perfect, if there is change then enjoy and enjoy each other. Life is too short, your daughter will need her space. Most important I learned to look at my own faults and Forgive my shortcomings leaving my daughter to be wbecuse the constant attempts of seeking her is not worth my sanity or health. someday my grandson will be a man, it will be her to answer why he was cut away and the reason won't make sense when it comes to the Love we had for each other! Take care, excercise, pray, and things will get easier with or without that want in your life.
Healing Heart Thank you for sharing your story and kind words of encouragement. I was doing better and refocusing on improving myself with the hope of impressing my daughter enough to accept me. She recently posted a picture of herself on facebook at 6-1/2 months pregnant and she just looks so radiant and beautiful, and I felt so tortured that I can't see her or hug her or share the experience with her since we've shared almost everything in the past. There are tears rolling down my face as I'm typing this right now, because the just as I was beginning to heal, the wound has been re-opened. She also posted a message yesterday that was worded "to the ladies that were invited to my baby shower", regarding a phone number or something. I felt as if I was slapped in the face. I just don't get how she can go from texting or talking on the phone with me multiple times every day, to treating me as if I don't even exist. I feel like I must be the most awful piece of garbage and sorry excuse for a human being. Even though to this day, there's nothing in the world my husband and I wouldn't do for her.
When she first told us the news about her pregnancy, I went out and bought her a $200 blender to make smoothies when she said she wanted to start having smoothies every day but didn't own a blender. I also got her a nice pregnancy pillow when she said she was having trouble sleeping because she was having difficulty getting comfortable. I got her some transitional clothing for work and bought some things for the baby too.
We even put ourselves into debt and bought a nicer car that would accommodate a car seat even though that may never even happen now. I have a couple of bins with baby clothes and things for a baby I may never even get to meet. Last week I mailed her a package with all her mail that comes to our house including 3 issues of the Parenting magazine I ordered for her, since I'm probably no longer welcome at her apartment which is only 5 minutes away from my job. She sent me a text on Friday to say thank you for sending her mail and that she was going to be moving in November and she would let me know her new address. I was ecstatic when I got her message, and I pondered on all the things I wanted to say to her but didn't really want to put it in a text, so all I said was, "Wow, that's great! Thanks for letting me know." I now feel like I missed an opportunity to say anything else, because I hoped that we were going to be back to at least texting. I haven't heard anything else back from her, but I so want to ask her to please not take away the opportunity for me to be a part of my grandson's birth and his life.
Like you Healing Heart I cry aloud when I'm alone, and put a smile on my face for everyone else and live my life, while still carrying all this pain and sadness in my heart. I am grateful to have my own mom, even though our relationship has always been somewhat distant as well, but at least we call each other every week or so.
@tx ang
Hang in there, sounds like there is hope based on her giving you her address. Remind yourself that you're a great woman and even better mom than most. Take care and best wishes.
TX_Ang
"It seems that she is embarrassed by who we are, as well as our family and friends. I'm Hispanic and her father is White as is my current husband, and her husband is White too, but comes from a more prominent family with a much higher income than us. We're just comfortable and live well below our means, so we don't drive brand new fancy cars or have a huge home. Also, another point of contention for her is that my husband is in a motorcycle club which she views in a negative way."
This seems to be the "disease" that is afflicting gen-y in particular,this need to compare her own family to her spouse's. Why is it that many young adults of gen-y who marry spouses from better-off homes feel ashamed of their parents in most instances? I wonder where they learnt to be so snobbish and to disrespect people who worked hard to bring them up with a good education etc. Or could it be a simple case of inferiority complex?
So she also suffers from this white superiority complex. If that's the case she must despise me too LO L bcs I'm Chinese,thus yellow and surely not white haha but it makes no difference to me bcs while I know the language of the white people how many white people know my language? I can come here to speak up but can many white people go to Chinese language sites to say something?
Looks like your daughter is a snob but is unaware she is so fret not. Give her time and space to grow up. Good luck,grandma-to-be.
TX_Ang The Scribe
Hi Ang. Could you be Chinese too besides being Hispanic? Judging by your surname bcs Ang is a Chinese surname. It can also be Wang or Ong etc. Must see the Chinese writing bcs the English ones are all spelt differently but it makes no difference bcs only the Chinese writing is important in a Chinese name. The meaning of your name (not your surname) is very important bcs it can affect your future life according to feng-shui.
I understand your worries. To be cut off from the grandchildren is an unforgivable action of the children if one looks from the filial piety point of view. A child who is unfilial to his elders will not earn Heaven's blessings. It is sad not to see our own grandchildren grow up. Whatever,which parent has never made a mistake or not done the best they know how? The fault is not entirely yours. All you can do is pray. She may yet be moved to see her own waywardness. All the best.
The Scribe No Chinese that I'm aware of, my full first name is Angela, which is Angel in Spanish. However, I am fascinated with the principles of feng-shui. Thank you for your kind words and understanding, I had a very bad day yesterday and shed a lot of tears for the loss of what is yet to be, meaning my unborn grandson. I feel as though I am in a grieving process as if someone that has passed away. Going through so many emotions of just not understanding why I am being punished for being excited for my daughter's 1st pregnancy and wanting to do something special for her. I'm obviously in some kind of denial that she just doesn't like me, and probably never has.
Reading all the other posts here have been helpful at times and also very sad and upsetting too. Some of the stories describing the years of estrangement in some families really scares me. My situation has only been 3 weeks and I'm a mess....
TX_Ang The Scribe Oh I see. Ang stands for Angela.
No need to worry about having a very bad day. It's normal to feel very down or very happy. It will take time for you to come to terms with such an unhappy life event. It's been 3 weeks only so you're still grieving. Everyone grieves differently. Some life events hurt some people more than others.
Feng-shui means wind and water. Feng=wind,shui=water. The Chinese believe in the 5 elements which form the basis of the principles of feng-shui - earth,wood,water,fire,metal. There is so much to say about these 5 elements alone. An imbalance in the nature of things could result in many of life's events,including estrangement from children. I don't know. Some people call it superstition LOL but I really believe in the importance of feng-shui bcs man must live in harmony with his environment as he's a part of it.
I am thankful to find this post. Since we are human beings we have feelings and we make mistakes. I have two children 21 and 28, a boy and girl. I always wanted kids and knew I wanted two. We lost my father to cancer when I was 12. My Mom worked full time and did the best she could. As a teen, I had very little awareness of what she experienced. I was not so smart but very emotional and lashed out at Mom. My younger sister and I are close now but we fought a lot and made my Mom miserable. I'm not sure how she did it but I think there might have been some little yellow pills in her tool box. She was far from perfect. Yelled and screamed a lot and slapped us until we were too old to let her. I never loved her less or broke contact. As I matured, married and had my own responsibilities, I realized how horrible I was to her. And fortunately, was able to share all this with her before she passed at 91. Love was the constant thread.
If only that was true of my marriage to a verbally and emotionally abusive alcoholic. I was the one that had to tell my little girl "daddy will be home soon". And felt that most of the time, I was raising our two single handedly. It was only when I threatened to divorce that the ex decided he could get the upper hand. And he did. Of course, our daughter (then a tender 13) longed to be "daddy's girl" and wanted to believe everything he told her. Brainwashing is a powerful weapon used by a parent to alienate the other parent. The ex did a very good job. I barely saw my daughter until she landed on my doorstep, crying her eyes out at 3am in the morning, begging to live w/me. She told me Dad had made all kinds of promises that he never kept, was crazy and hated her first real boyfriend. We had a great reconciliation and I thought understood each other pretty well. However, since it was the holidays and her brother was still at his home, I (very reluctantly) asker her to go back. @4 months later she asked if she could move in w/her bf. And I said OK, when I probably should not have. Things went well until he wasn't working or going to school. I gave them/him a generous 4 week deadline. Instead they packed everything up and moved out immediately. I only have 2 bedrooms so this then gave me a chance to let our son live w/me. He called at least once or twice a week asking me to rescue him and was in fact being neglected and having to take care of his father.
Even when paying child support, I did whatever I could for both and they knew I was there for them. I helped my daughter w/a car, computer and then yoga school. She became a wonderful yoga teacher. I was vey proud of her independence, passion and acute business mind. She opened a studio and was very successful. I was there, every step of the way and enjoyed attending her classes. When boyfriend #2 broke up after 4 years, I was there to pick up the pieces (and make sure she ate). (I'm a Jewish mother!)
Meanwhile, the ex was getting sicker and sicker but refused to stop drinking and would hide stuff under his bed. Due to weird complications our son was living w/him again. At 2am I got a call from our daughter. "Daddy just died. Please get over here right away!" And so I rushed over there. They wanted me and needed me, at that point. A horrible night that didn't end until about 6am. I was invited to the memorial (at sea) and joined a boat full of family and friends, to scatter his ashes. And (somewhat reluctantly because they joined and contributed to the alienation) went to my in-laws afterwards for dinner. Everyone was very civil and nice as could be.
I know it was because he was very ill. The ex stopped paying for his life insurance and bought guns and guitars instead. The mortgage he left was twice as much as the amount we originally bought the house for. And that is what he left our children. He never remodeled or threw anything away. It was quite a sad mess. My son had to move back in with me. The plan was to clean up, throw stuff out and put the house up for sale. Meanwhile, the mortgage had to be paid. Not something I could help with. I have my own home and bills. And son was not working, at the time. Though, I wasn't especially thrilled w/the idea, I offered to help clean up.
Meanwhile, years ago (out of the clear blue) my ex told me he was going to give me a part of his pension and asked me to sign some paperwork. In ten years, that was almost the only nice thing he had done. I had spent my entire retirement account going to court for the kids, in my effort to spare them from a lot of this heartache. That sure didn't work out! After he died, I was having a very hard time making ends meet and supporting my then 18 yo son. Without telling either child, I went ahead and did the paperwork to receive the (slightly more than $400.00 monthly pension payment). It truly saved my butt and my sons. Otherwise, there was a good chance we would have ended up homeless.
One early Sat. morning, my son and I went to the ex house and started right in. We made a deal that he would clean the bathrooms and I would clean the horribly cobwebby carport. He was extremely scared of spiders. As soon as my daughter arrived, I could tell she was angry at me. First she wanted to know why I wasn't cleaning the bathroom. Instead of listening, she went off the rails and started yelling about me going behind her back. Clearly, she had no intention of listening and started making me very nervous. I gathered my things and started backing towards my car. Then she yelled at her brother and said he'd better go with me. And that is the last time we had a face to face conversation.
Her Dad told her he wanted her to have the pension and not me (the horrible witch). Maybe he did but he did nothing to change that when he was alive and he had plenty of years to do that. So now, even in death, the alienation has reared up and taken it's toll. It's been over two years. We had some back and forth attempts to reconcile, mostly started by me. But I am still a horrible person, who did terrible things and lied all the time. Now she and new boyfriend (who I have never met) moved across the country.
While working w/other yoga teachers, my daughter became close to several counselor, social worker women. A lot of stuff she said didn't sound like her at all. I am sure they kept telling her how "toxic" I was and that she would be better off not talking to me. At least, that is the feeling I got. Not an excuse. Just part of the deal.
I am generally a very positive person. I realized, I needed help when I cried for most of a weekend non-stop. I found a good counselor and worked on getting a better perspective. I wish I could say I have "let go" but that is obviously not the case. I love my daughter and miss her so much. I hate this! Talking about it helps, especially when I am talking to people that have gone through something similar or worse. My heart goes out to each and everyone of you. Thank you for listening.
numberfiveminusone
Thankyou for your reply. I think they have accepted how he is. I will always be the daughter that gives them enough love and support for both of myself and my brother. Even though I live much further away from them than he does. Take care Daisy
numberfiveminusone Awesome answer!
Daisy, I feel for you and for your parents. I have a brother that went into the navy as a teenager then settled hundreds of miles from my parents. He's had very little contact with my parents over the years, they've accepted it. I just think he's build differently that I or my sister am. He seems to care about himself mostly, and I don't think he even knows or understands how he's hurt anyone. Maybe your brother is the same way?
NL Mom numberfiveminusone
Hi, I think you are right I think he is built differently and does not understand that he has hurt anyone. I'm not justifying his behaviour though and still wonder how he can do this.
numberfiveminusone Thumbs up for your answer.
To Daisy - just ignore this so-called brother of yours but try not to run him down with your parents as it could cause them more pain. A horrible child is still a child. You won't feel it bcs he's not your child. Try to imagine how you would feel if someone tells you to disown your own child. It's like asking you to cut off an arm or a leg. the same goes for them when you ask them to do that.
Hope what I wrote is not offensive. You did ask for suggestions. All the best.
The Scribe numberfiveminusone
Hi, its really easy for me to ignore him. I don't even refer to him as my brother when talking to people I call him my parents son. I just called him my brother in this post to get across that I am biologically related to him unfortunately.
I don't actually ask my parents to disown him just wish they would. It's really hard not to run him down in front of them and I know its something I need to work on. Thanks for your answer, it wasn't offensive
@misdy9
How does one say no more abuse and keep door open? Seems like that's the answer, have that sign with the door closed...open the door and enter as this is a no abuse zone. In other words the relationship should be under terms of mutual respect, no exceptions!
Although I think you do present some great points, there are certainly some parents that will only use their children as assets. I was one of those children. While growing up I was beat for not getting enough money from my father for the household. He was an alcoholic and spent all this money on beer or cigarettes. I was told I wasn't good enough constantly and made to feel like trash everyday. I was brainwashed into thinking negatively about my own father. My mother told me everyday to hate him and when I grow up I owe her. Any small mistake would set her off in a fit of anger or spew of frustration. You didn't sweep the floor? Well then you are a disgusting person like your father. You understand the point. That was just a small one.
It eventually got to the point where I met someone and their kind family in high school. They agreed to take me in because I told them about my living conditions. I had low self esteem, suicidal thoughts (I still do because I replay things from my childhood in my brain, it's less now), self harmed. I was made fun of for crying. I was constantly deceived by my own mom. It was not until high school I noticed my family was off. I started to visit other families and notice how nice they were to one another. My family was always trying to defend themselves from attacks or ready to attack. My brothers stopped talking to each other for 2 years. My mom didn't even try to fix it. SHE DIDN'T CARE.
But guess what, after I threatened to leave and tried to pack my things and bring them to my locker at school...she made a scene on the street. She tore open my things, and told everyone nearby I was a bad child for trying to run away with my boyfriend. I tried to explain repeatedly that it was her who constantly threatened to kick me out. I told others that she was being terrible. I was shut down...by another adult. He said I needed to woman up because he believed her. When I went back that day, she faked her suicide attempt. I thought she swallowed a bunch of pills so I called 911. I was in a panic...I cared. I cared so much I cried. But when I found out she faked it, I was done. I didn't want to come back. She ran from the home when I called the police, I was worried and chased her!! She needed medical attention! She called me crazy for calling! I was 17!
Although I moved away, I still tried to keep in touch with her. I thought with a distance that maybe she would try to understand me more. Instead she would only call to tell me about how I was making her look bad to others (she didn't have many friends, and family generally thought she was pitiful), would have an unhappy life for leaving family, and asked me for money.
The last few times she has called me only for money.
I tried to get a mediator to help me with this before but all they could say was that she was my mother and that I should go back. I think she is mentally ill because she was prescribed antidepressants and I don't believe I saw her take them.
Sorry for the long rant but sometimes the child becomes estranged for safety reasons too. I love my life now because I understand myself more and I can enjoy things without feeling so guilty anymore. My emotions are better.
@Mel The Scribe
Mel,thank you for your reply. I'm an observer and I empathise. I'm not personally going thru' this estrangement thingy but my close relatives are and I'm sort of involved with their predicament.
I see your sincerity in wanting to go back to your parents. It's good to know that you still love them despite everything. Take your time,calm yourself and make a move when you feel you're ready emotionally and mentally.
What you wrote about children - "If I have children in the future, I want them to be proud of who they are and feel loved. Their thoughts and feelings are valuable because it is what makes life meaningful. I wished I was at least taught that by my parents." It's so true. That's so insightful. If I had known this I would not have made my fair share of mistakes. Luckily I've taught my children about filial piety and they were brought up the traditional Chinese way so there's very little worry about estrangement yet one can't be too careful. My close relatives brought up their kids the same way yet two of their daughters are going in that scary direction. One of them is slowly coming back so everyone in my large extended family is hoping that the other daughter will be moved to reconsider her unfilial actions and attitude.
This article might actually save my life.
I am really struggling. My eldest (son, now 31) married a woman that made him break all ties with me and his dad. They have a son who will be 1 yr old in 2 days time. We have never been allowed to even meet him.
My daughter hates me for being such a terrible parent when she was a teen. I was.
I broke my neck in a car accident and was in a wheelchair for 7 yrs and suffered badly from panic attacks.
She couldn´t cope with that. And still cannot find it in her to forgive me. I know I was very hard to be around, always scared, always in pain, crying a lot, being needy and sometimes angry.
Her father stuck by me and cared from me, we are still happily married and I am out of my wheelchair and has gotten on with life.
I also have PKD cystic kidneys and liver and will soon be needing dialysis and then a transplant.
She does not allow me to talk about this.
Every time she adresses me she is snappy, angry or treat me like a child. When I tell her it´s not ok to do so she threatens me to not let me see her 2 boys, never visit again.
So I walk on egg shells around her.
Me and my husband also have two younger boys, and with them things are easier. They are 9 and 21.
Some days I feel like i can do nothing right and that the whole family would be better off without me.
@Maggie Hi my dear Maggie,
What you wrote made me feel so sad. The callous way your daughter treated you shows she's an unfeeling person. How could she blame you for the accident and your present medical condition? Nobody asks for such health problems.
Your family won't be better off without you since you've a 9 year old and a good husband. You will be better off without those unworthy children. All the best and know that the community here are for you.
Hello, I had the funeral for Bill. The people that came gave me lots of attention and these people hugged me. I liked the funeral because I was the centre of attention. Some invites didn't come to the funeral and give me sour face. I tell them, "they haven't walked in my shoes". I had two children, now I only say I have one. I give my other child everything he wants so If Bill ever comes back he will see how happy Burny is and will be jealous of how successful Burny is because of my support and for not having me to care for his rude teenage brat that never said thank you.
I am on anxiety tablets, and someone say to me; that I need to concentrate on "getting better", so if Bill ever comes back I will be in the position to build a relationship with Bill that was stronger then the previous one we had. I am offended and did not reply.
@Missingbill
I am glad you took a step to make yourself feel better even if some people in your life did not understand. I understand why you are offended by someone saying you need to "get better" so that you and Bill can have a relationship that is stronger if he chooses to have a relationship with you. Unless there has been abuse I do not see how a family member needs to be in a strong position to be loved by other family members. That is what makes family special- they love us despite our flaws. It's heartbreaking but I see you in (in my mind) in a tux as you greet your family friends who pay homage to the loss of Bill and your grief. I wish you peace my friend.
@Missingbill Wow so you went thru' it. I don't know what to think. I don't think this kind of taboo ritual should be done.
You could just keep thinking that you only have one child. Habitual behaviour/thoughts will soon become second nature and one day soon you'll forget about this estranged son. He doesn't deserve you. Anyway,what's done is done so all the best to you.
My son has bulliede since he was 14.
He is now 41 and he is still a bully. It is horrifying and way beyond my understanding. He must be extremely troubled. I have absolutely no idea what do to, absolutely none. He is angry with the world and I guess he feels I am the one who deserves the punishment. His father is toxic and has poisoned him. My son says he hates his father but he does not break ties with him. My son was so proud that he did not speak to me for 12 years, then we spent fun times and communication however, he would hold back for months then ignore that fact. We visited and kept in touch about 7 years and he is on another anger binge. I never know what sets him off. If I had an answer from God for this and a resolve, how precious would that be?
I feel everyone's pain. My daughter and I have had a tumultuous relationship all her life. Times it has been my fault and others hers, yet I am always the one to keep trying to build bridges. She went through years where she didn't work and I financially supported her in her own flat about an hour from my home, I used to clean it, du her laundry and fill the fridge up when I visited as her life was out of control. She did sort her life out after a spell in the priory and we were good for a while. I found her to be judgmental though as she worked through her 12 steps, felt that she had become holier than thou in her attitude, and that her path was now the best path and that every view that didn't correspond with hers was wrong, but as we lived a long way away our physical contact was limited but we still spoke on the phone. When I did visit it was because she wanted me to do something, decorate, help with the garden that sort of thing. I was too passive and agreed each time just so that I could have a relationship. I am sometimes of the view that I actually didn't like her as person anymore but felt guilty because she was my daughter
The final straw came when I was ill in hospital about 3 years ago, I was being moved from hospital to hospital with no idea what was happening. During a call to her I explained the frustration I felt at the lack of communication from the staff in hospital about what was happening and when I would be moved back nearer home ( I was hospitalized with a suspected stroke) she told me she could no longer deal with this it was too much for her. I saw her briefly at my sisters funeral 6 months later and she made no attempt to be civil. We have not spoken since.
I have not thought of the estrangement for the past 2 years, whilst hurt, I accepted that she wanted to her own way and I was not part of that. I felt happy that she was now with a good man and was settled, I was also tired of the continuous walking on eggshells when we did speak or meet, I heard this week that she married at the weekend. I wasn't invited and it did hurt.
I am going to write her a letter congratulating her on her wedding , and to wish her joy and happiness, and let her know my door is always open. I will add as a final note that if we never meet again I hope that life treats her kindly and that I am proud that she is my daughter and that I have and will always love her .
if she responds then maybe we can rebuild, if not, I will feel that I will have tried one last time, and will have closure.
I
M155P wow. That is quite the,story. It made me cry for you
My son did the same thing with a marriage. Hes been married months,now and i havent hea8rf from him since he got married. It all hurts so badly. All you can do is try one more time,as you said. I wont get that chance becausr he,had me blocked at every turn i have no way to contact him. And he lives,3500 mikes away now. We were best friends all his life we traveled together and had great times and lots of laughs . I know h8iw you feel. I cant do anything to help you, but i do understand you and i do know your pain and feel your emptiness. I support you and will be there. Leftnlonely
So when your mother evicts her daughter (that pays part of the mortgage) & grandchildren for being 'disrespectful', AND plasters our business AND my sudden eviction on Facebook and clearly says she will keep posting til she's happy, I'm responding from anxiety? Give me a BREAK!! Separating myself from the person that birthed me is called, healing.
Someone needs to post from the childs point of view.
@Moni
I'm sure the parents here at this site can see your p.o.v. as the child. You can still talk things over with her Moni. She's your mom after all so why go on the war path?
She's angry for some reason. Get somebody trustworthy and respectful of her to be the mediator. Old people only need respect and kindness. Once these two "ingredients" are available everything falls into place.
It's like cooking rice porridge (we Chinese eat a lot of rice porridge even if we don't live in China). All you need is rice and salt or just rice if you're cooking plain porridge but if you want to add in other ingredients then you'll need salt as well. I hope my analogy makes sense to you and not make you angrier than you already are. Do not waste the ONE mother that you have.
The Scribe "She's your mom after all."
Please, stop. Parents can be abusive, and it's shocking that you respond in this manner to someone who is being outright harassed by their parent.
Adult children typically do not go no contact for no reason without drugs or mental illness involved. It took me years to finally love and respect myself enough to tell my parents that they were no longer welcome to the privilege of being a part of my life. I have never been happier - and they go around the internet complaining about how they have "no idea why" when that is anything but the truth.
The one mother we have might not be a good person. If your parents have treated you poorly, as it is so abundantly clear is true in @Moni's case, then why on earth should we be expected to take the abuse?
Sometimes we have to accept that they never will come out with the courage of telling why, maybe it has nothing to do with the parent but more with whatever the adult child is fighting in their own minds. But you're right, we can't go through life beating ourselves up trying to figure it out...and if we are lucky someday they will tell us ...it was this about you that just pushed me away or I was going through this and didn't want you to judge or witness my struggle. Maybe they won't tell us why because a part of them wants us to not give up on them in case they need us or suffer because of what they believe we deserve. Guess it all depends on what childhood they had. Who knows ...so many factors so little time in life, can't shove a relationship down anyone's path.
It's a struggle to let go of our children now that they are adults, but it's part of the process if it's only one sided efforts.
Leftnlonely That is good,Lady. I'm glad to hear you've moved on and decided to make a new life for yourself. Only you can make it positive for yourself. We can only empathise and advise.
Since there's nothing you can do you might as well get over the grieving and start to live. To continue grieving is NOT worth the suffering bcs your son is not going to care at all. You'll be wasting your emotional energy and your life. You've done your duty by him so let it be. Many parents can't figure out what wrong they had done bcs there were so many years in between. If adult children decide to be petty parents can't do anything. They think they are entitled to it yet their parents are not entitled to their kindness and respect.
By the way Lady,where in the world are you? I think I'm the only one in the east. I'm an overseas chinese,meaning I was born outside china. I live in one of the south-east asian countries which is sunny almost everyday except during the monsoon season when we have lots of rain. As we are very near the equator there's only one season throughout the year so it's always summer which is hot and humid. The only respite is when it rains or if we run up to the mountains.
Leftnlonely Wow,east coast of the US. It's very far away from me. I have a sister-in-law and family living in New Jersey but I've never been to the states. When I think of the long flight crossing the Pacific Ocean to visit the US I surrender LOL.
Thank you for your kind words. I do not know very much but I can imagine how you feel and whatever solace I'm able to offer you I shall and am glad that what I write helps make you feel better. We are all going thru' this journey called life together no matter where we are so if words which don't cost anything can make people feel less lonely then we should offer some as a form of prayer.
I'm touched by the last two words in your last sentence "... but I still wonder." You're still looking for the answer,Lady. Just be patient.
These comments are incredibly revealing. As keithhendrickson pointed out, there are *many* stories of "well, I was the wronged party, so they need to come to me." A rather disappointing but not unexpected thing to read. However I'm equally joyed by the fact that there are estranged children and parents talking. When we spend our time talking to friends and family on our side, even those who disagree with us are hesitant to tell us "so...like you're kind of being a jerk there. Maybe be less of a jerk?" Someone with a predisposed opinion to tell us we are wrong might just give us a bit of positive perspective on something so highly charged and emotional.
As for my own part, I have been estranged from my mother for nearly 8 years. The disagreement that lead to that final option for me was a rather classic one; I intensely disliked the man she had just recently married and over the course of a day long fight over text and email she had essentially given me a line in the sand "you either get both of us or neither of us." Being a financially secure adult I told her never to talk to me again and have only exchanged brief emails since, the closest thing to kindness coming from me being pity.
Now obviously that was only the tipping point at the top of a very tall mountain that had been built up for years. Along the path we traveled was her own mother's misogyny and emotional abuse, a suspected sexual assault and abortion before I was born, a particularly angry kid of mixed race reacting poorly to the racism in the small community he grew up in, a hobby that included an opera singer frequently singing at full volume regardless of the location, and a host of other extremely complicated issues that I'm not ashamed to bring up but would turn a comment on an article into the first half of a book entitled "The Two Times I Felt Loved: A Son's Journey of Loss and Growth."
But the real crux of a point I want to make here is directed at the parents who send emails and only receive curt replies or what appear to be accusations that are flat out wrong on their worst day and entirely petty on their best. I can't speak for everyone of course, but the truth is I don't want to tell my mother the real reasons for cutting her out. I'm scared of telling her because I'm scared of her. She was particularly skilled at invalidating my feelings. Her intent didn't matter, the effect was that I could never speak to her about the words she had said without feeling like somehow I was 'wrong' for having been hurt. I can't say that I am an amazing person, but I can say I deserve better than to be treated like I don't know what I am feeling.
I don't want to give her a chance to again invalidate me.
So if she sends an email or somehow circumvents the various social media blocks, I keep my physical and emotional distance in my replies lest she find the hook that allows her to tell me that I'm wrong. There was a time some years ago where I was willing to forgive her if she simply owned that behavior. I couldn't tell her to own it, partially because our own history told me that another round of emotional invalidation was inevitable and partially because I couldn't take the risk that any resulting change was shallow or insincere. She had to go through that growth on her own, just as I had to work through the sources of my own bitterness and anger in order to have the healthy relationships I've since formed without her. As a result, I doubt she knows what happened from my side. Maybe she cares and is too afraid to ask. But her attempts to restart a relationship with me since have been entirely about objects she wants to unload on me despite me making it clear multiple times that I would accept no objects from her under any circumstances. Even if they are sincere -my own story places that in extreme suspicion- that isn't the behavior of someone who has come to an emotional understanding. And seeing as I have my own life to live I have neither the desire nor the responsibility to help her get there.
Do I regret cutting her out? I do in the sense that I'm unhappy that I had to go that far to protect myself. It was still the best decision I have ever made. But, noting that the above is merely a very brief overview of a rather complicated tale, I'm willing to have someone tell me "dude, you're kind of being a jerk." I've grown enough to be comfortable hearing that.
RobertStrankman I'm not going to respond to the others because I feel like it would waste my time. But I am sorry to see that you came here, bravely spoke your piece and only got invalidated again. The truth is the people responding come from two groups A)people in denial that they ever abused their kids themselves b) people that have had reasonable parents, have been able to fix the problems they had and therefore why shouldn't you?
The thing is, they might be partially right. Your mom might love you, but love is not enough. Particularly not when it's love like this. I think Neil Gaiman put in quite eloquently:
“It was true: the other mother loved her. But she loved Coraline as a miser loves money, or a dragon loves its gold. In the other mother's button eyes, Coraline knew that she was a possession, nothing more. A tolerated pet, whose behavior was no longer amusing.”
? http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1221698.Neil_Gaiman, http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/2834844
Relica RobertStrankman
Neil Gaiman is INSIGHTFUL.
RobertStrankman
Tempus fugid,Robert. In the blink of an eye it could become 20 years and then you wonder where the time had gone.
Your mom would grow old and she would one day pass on. Why bear so much grudge? Why can't you talk things over with somebody you respect as a mediator? Once she passes on you'll never get a chance to talk things over and you'll lose the opportunity to show your care. I hope you will not live to regret your extreme lack of charity.
The Scribe RobertStrankman This truly intrigues me. You run from the assumption that I care enough to talk things over or that I care. I don't on either count. Ignoring that her history of emotional abuse would make me extraordinarily hesitant to put myself out there -remember, this woman made it a point to tell me my emotions were 'wrong' at nearly every step- what do I have to gain? What does she have to offer me as an adult?
To be clear: one of the reasons estrangement has been so relentlessly easy is that regardless of any emotional damage done, I don't like her. As a person. I don't like her hobbies, I don't like the movies or television she watches, I don't like the books she reads. There is a noted lack of anyone in my life who has more than one or two interests in common with her. If we were to talk about positive experiences in my life since age 15, the few she was present for and could not be replaced by literally anyone not actively antagonizing me at that instant would number five or six if I am being optimistic, three of which would involve a childhood dog that passed some time ago. This comes across as a condemnation of her character I know. That is not my intent. I despise her as a mother. My dislike comes from the fact that we are very different people. Were she not my mother I wouldn't give her a second thought short of looking at some random activity that people enjoy and wondering "why does anyone enjoy that?"
If I don't need her emotionally as a mother, I have long divested any need for the material support common in my generation due to a very questionable economy, and I find her presence as a person to be an empty experience...where do I benefit changing my life to allow someone otherwise unwelcome in?
RobertStrankman The Scribe Wow Robert! You're talking about your mother here. If you despise her and want to continue with the estrangement who are we to say anything? If so,why bother at all to post here? If your situation does not trouble you why did you bother to tell your story? That was why I assumed you care.
"If I don't need her emotionally as a mother, I have long divested any need for the material support common in my generation due to a very questionable economy, and I find her presence as a person to be an empty experience...where do I benefit changing my life to allow someone otherwise unwelcome in?"
Goodness,do you see your mom as a business venture? From what you wrote it looks like there was too much angst in your mother-son relationship and you have much to unravel. If it's worth it to salvage,why not? All the best and good luck. I hope I did not offend you.
The Scribe RobertStrankman You did not offend. Confuse and intrigue at a different insight perhaps, but no offense. My hope is to stop this nonsense from happening to anyone else. Bluntly, being estranged sucks. It feels like being orphaned or that something is wrong with me. I spend a lot of time thinking about what I did as a child that caused my mother to be so angry at me so often and spend so much time breaking me down. And I can't ever find out because she's so skilled at emotional abuse that she could drive me into another nervous breakdown. Maybe that was her goal, "I am so angry at how men have treated me that I'll prove they can be just as weak as my mother told me women were! HAHA!" Probably not. More likely she was just too wrapped up in her own damage to notice. The end result, however, is the same as I cannot put my family at risk by exposing one of them to a person known to hurt them terribly.
What does this mean for other estranged parents? All my mother had to do before it was too late -more on why it was too late in a moment- is simply say "I know that my behavior often upset you very much. My intent was not to hurt you and as it obviously did, I am genuinely sorry. If you are willing to talk, I am willing to listen." Ownership, remorse, and a willingness to listen without anger. She couldn't undo what was done...but she could have proven she was willing to be a better person in the future. It wouldn't matter if she thought she was the wronged party or not, it wouldn't matter if she thought I was the biggest most ungrateful jerk who had ever lived (though if so, why bother having me in her life if I was so awful), if she wanted the relationship then she needed to be bigger if only in her own eyes. Might have blown up in her face...then she could at least say she tried. She didn't try, so now she'll never get the chance.
Why will she never get the chance? The answer ties into my second post about 'what does she bring to the table?' I bring up finances there (and in the first) as a point of noting that by the time estrangement occurs material concerns are neither the cause nor the cure. Worse, what if they were? Is that all a parent is supposed to be? A bank that charges interest via phone calls with people mildly uninterested in them? I've yet to meet a person who deserves that kind of useless attachment. Every person in every person's life must be more than just a money or a bit of impersonal effort. My mother will never get the chance because she lost the only thing she had that could make me happy, the aforementioned childhood dog had died. The dog was the only thing my mother and I equally cared about in young adulthood. She was very literally thing only thing that we never disagreed about. Without her I had no other positive things to miss about my mother.
What does this mean for other estranged parents? What does your child see that you bring to their life? That's a cold view to hold perhaps, but it matters, because it matters why an adult child would want you in what is probably a happier life (if it wasn't happier, they could have reached out or responded). It also matters if estrangement ends. Without a friendship or camaraderie to sustain the relationship it will remain cold and distant since the adult child will have little impetus to pursue it beyond the bare minimum of civility. Yes, the adult offspring holds most if not all the blame for this...but again, they aren't the ones pursuing a relationship.
Yes, I despise my mother. She has earned that. I despise anyone who hurts or threatens the safety of me or my own, especially if they do so repeatedly and without remorse. No one owes their abuser love and I am rightfully far too afraid of her words to offer forgiveness. It didn't have to be this way, though. And if I can maybe stop or reverse it from happening to another family, maybe that can ease some of my guilt...even if that guilt is based on acting appropriately to something I can't control.
RobertStrankman The Scribe
Hi Robert,
Thank you for not taking offence and for your kind reply which helps me understand your particular situation. Indeed I was confused and intrigued as I was thinking with my eastern confucian mind. This reply will surely help a lot of victim-parents who wonder why their adult children are keeping away. Of course,some adult children are doing it out of selfishness or a calculative mind.
If your mom had realised she should go thru' a reliable mediator if she cannot say those things to you directly. Your mom must have herself gone thru' much abuse herself to act in the following mode
"I am so angry at how men have treated me that I'll prove they can be just as weak as my mother told me women were!"
This shows it was all psychological. She was hurt by the male gender when she was younger so she probably took it out on you bcs you're male. After reading your reply I can feel the human in you. I don't think she realised what she had been doing to you all these years. Parents all love their children so they don't realise. They think they are doing the right thing bcs they are seeing things from the other side. If so,and you still think it's worth one last try get someone you trust and whom your mom knows to talk to her bcs she can't initiate the move as she has not realised. You're the enlightened one here Robert so the ball is actually in your court.
I wish you all the best. Being estranged from one's parents,children and siblings is the worst thing to happen to anyone.
RobertStrankman
From lcjantzi
I've read all your posts here and the others that responded. For what it's worth, I believe you were truly abused. The part that stopped me cold was after you said you wanted to "stop this nonsense from happening to anyone else" and then you went on to ask , "What does your child see that you bring to their life?" So I asked myself this question. Basically, I believed I brought everything in me to my children's lives up to the point of them growing away from me, which I accepted. Unlike your mother, I was supportive and there were times when I took the brunt of extremely hurtful criticism in order to support and protect my children when we were going through the arrest and "fallout" of their dad's sexual deviancy, when my son acted out, when my one daughter became pregnant and many other occasions that pain me to remember.
What I have to give now is peace, drama-less peace and stability. I only asked for three visits a year- Thanksgiving, Christmas and my birthday. I even negotiated on the days and times we could gather for these times. The one time I put my foot down, it became THE issue.
But none of my story really relates to yours accept "the question". My answer is, I was the kind of mother that never wanted to do anything to hurt my child. I understand that there were times when their feelings were hurt or I said or did something that disappointed them. As you said, these things can't be undone. But I believe we can talk about them and maybe there is understanding to gain. Anyway, from their point of view they were "abused" and want no contact from me for years now. Since they have said this, they probably feel as you do, in that, I would invalidate them, etc. I'm thinking that if they heard or read your story, they might figure out that they had it pretty good and consider the kind and loving words I used when I reached out to them during these years of estrangement. Words that never mentioned the hurtful and disrespectful lthings they said and did to me as their parent.
So, Robert, thank you for telling your story. It's helped me to realize that what I BROUGHT to the lives of my children was my best and I now deserve their love and respect. Some adult children would have given anything to have a mum like me despite my fumblings as a parent.
Dear keithhendrickson,
You seem to be sincerely searching for answers. I am in both worlds, that is, my adult children have estranged me and my parents act,sometimes, like "spoiled, entitled and abusive people; demanding that our relationship be on THEIR terms. A small example, I recently took a plane to visit them (they live in another state, about 2,000 mi. away) at significant cost (I'm on a fixed income) because it had been four months since I was there. they don't get much company, as my sibling, in the same town, has all but enstranged them and my other sibling lives 2 hrs. away and has a job.
The day before I left, which was day 5, my dad called me a name and I asked him not to because it hurt my feelings. He thought it was funny. Later, he called me the same name again (it is a vile name, depicting sex with an animal). Again, I asked him to please stopping using that name because it was offensive to me. He claimed it was not offensive and called me the name again. I explained to him that I did not feel loved and like daughter when he called me that name and, again, I requested that he not use that name on me. He laughed it off but, though my mother laughed at first, she also told him to stop it.
I think I understand, at least a little, how you feel. It is difficult to get to the point in a relationship where both parties willing to take responsibility for their part in the "desolution" of the relationship. Most people want the other to speak the "amends" first and then we will/might claim our part. The thing is, that most of these broken relationships are emotionally charged and some are super-senitized to hearing "explanations" as "excuses" because of the elaborate stories we tell ourselves. We sometimes "bathe" ourselves in these stories day after day until we thoroughly believe them to be the whole truth. For example, one of my adult children expressed to me that all of them agreed that I was the cause of their poor body-image and resulting eating disorders. They claim that I hounded their dad about his weight and they were all on a diet because of my obsession with his weight. The truth is, as a baby, my son was often sick with upper respiratory and double ear infections. A friend suggested changes in what I was feeding my family; it was radical (no sugar, white flour or highly processed food-stay as close to natural as possible). I hesitated to do it but I did it after a number of doctor visits and rounds of antibiotics left my toddler son more sick than he had been before the medicines. My son responded well to the new "diet" and I learned how to make things sweet with honey and maple syrup. My children would ask me to make certain food dishes and treats. I raised them on this way of eating. Also, they had no idea that their dad asked my help with keeping his weight down, as his family, were mostly obese and his father died of a massive heart attack. But my adult children seem to need someone to blame.
I wasn't a perfect mom. I was passive when I should have been assertive. I was wrong about some of my beliefs. I came under fire because my siblings determined that I was too attentive to my children, too dedicated a mother. I guess maybe I made excuses for my teens because their father was arrested for a sex crime and neither they nor I saw it coming. The divorce took 2+ yrs. because I struggled with moving, finding new schools for my teens, finding and working a full-time job, dealing with their dad over child support, dealing with lawyers, psychologists (me & my teens),therapists (me and my teens), psychiatric nurse practitioners (for my daughter) & their pay, my teens acting out with drugs, sex, pregnancies, an abortion, my grandson in the hospital for months and his death, my daughter's suicide attempts and I had two operations and going through menopause.
Keith, I guess what I want to say is, be sure you know the whole truth. We are made up of the same "fabric" as our parents. Be sure that you are open to understanding beyond what you see and have experienced. There may be better ways to set stronger boundaries with your parents. As for me, I will not let my dad call me that name without letting him know that it hurts our relationship and damages my respect for him as his daughter.
Family relationships are sacred and we cannot cut one another off without also sustaining some damage to ourselves. I hope you can find a way to get the respect and love you desire because of your obvious desire to give respect and love, also.
Would you be open to reading a book called, "Nonviolent Communication" by Marshall Rosenberg? It was helpful to me . I wish you all the best on your journey and I hope you never have to navigate the path of estrangement.
lcjantzi Thank you http://www.livefyre.com/profile/109640568/ for your response. Thank you for sharing your story. Unfortunately the damage I face myself by cutting off abusive relatives is a compromise I have to make; something I have to live and struggle with daily. What you are saying is true. We will never cut off a relationship without hurting ourselves. But it's the only way to stop the cycle of abuse. We have to find a way to live with our frustrations, our anger, and insecurities so we do not pass our negativity on to our children.
The truth is, I don't know the whole story. One thing I have learned is that, in many ways, I know very little about their lives. I cannot begin to comprehend what others have gone through; their struggles, failures, their pain. Honestly, even though I am always willing to listen, those things are none of my business. But, when a bully hits you on the playground, understanding why they did it will help you to forgive them, but it won't keep it from happening again. I understand and respect that others have experienced trials that I have not, but unfortunately we are all responsible for our behavior towards others. Just my opinion.
lcjantzi I agree that adult children sometimes "see" things which are NOT there at all. They form ideas from their experiences/thoughts/ observation while growing up but what they accuse their parents of might not have grounds. The non-truth could be very true to them probably through wrong interpretations of words and actions.
Hey Keith,you should come to the East and see for yourself how "entitled" the parents here are,especially parents of the x-generation and of the baby-boomers. Parents of young adults who belong to the y and z generations have lost some of the "entitlement" that parents of the older generations take for granted. However,most of our "entitled" parents behave themselves but some do give their young adult children a tough time by being very demanding of their children - their time and money. We are still traditional and filial piety is still the norm. A non-filial child will be criticised by relatives and close family friends. Thank you.
keithdhendrickson The Scribe lcjantzi
Hi Keith,
The problem here in the East is that few people see it as "abuse",especially the way they treat their daughters-in-law a few generations back. Of course,the situation is rapidly changing and soon it's going to be the daughters-in-law who will be doing the "bullying".
I agree that respect is of utmost importance. Family should not be any different. If we can treat friends,colleagues and neighbours with respect why can't we do it with family? Kindness and respect will end this estrangement problem that is largely plaguing the western world but has already reared its ugly head and disrupting many families.
keithdhendrickson The Scribe lcjantzi
Hi Keith,
You wrote that you live in the southeast. Of which part of the world,if I may ask? Could your in-laws be from Fiji or some Polynesian island? I live among Malays who have Polynesian ancestry. The Polynesians are a very gentle and likeable people yet abuse exists in any culture.
Revering the elderly (and people older than us) need not necessarily cause any tension if we simply accept the practice as part of a particular culture. Dissatisfaction arises when we question too much e.g. when you watch a fairy-tale on tv and you keep questioning this and that scene you won't be able to enjoy the story. We orientals are more simple-minded. We simply suspend our disbelief LOL and accept whatever practices bcs it's part of the culture. The young today (teens and adults too) feel that they must go against the norm just to showcase their individualism. We can always exert our individualism in ways that don't disrupt the norm of a society.
I mentioned that estrangement is rearing its ugly head here in the east bcs today's young people find it difficult to accept the culture of entitlement etc as a given.
The Scribe keithdhendrickson lcjantzi I am an American, which is where I was born and raised. I live in Australia currently and my in-laws are New Zealand Polynesian, also living in Australia. So as you can imagine, it took me a while to sort out what were socially and culturally acceptable differences and what was just abusive behavior. I know that this is not part of their culture, it's just who they are as individuals. The Polynesian culture is incredibly accepting and hospitable in most regards.
As for you being Chinese, I can imagine with some of the recent western influences in China's culture and economy, there would be a lot of tension between the older family/community and "simple" philosophy which prevails with the elderly that you mentioned and the individualistic trends of western influences on youth. Just some thoughts.
@ keithdhendrickson
Yes there are allot of adults on this site that don't take responsibility for their actions, allot appear to have absolutely no idea what they did ? and are victims. In life it is not always possible to get along with everyone (weather it be family/ friends etc.). Sometimes relationships are just are not meant to be. There is reason and purpose behind everything (and this can be hard to understand).
At the end of the day we need to put our own marriage, family, the people that are apart of our lives that help us, support us at the time, our relationship with God first. Stay away/ avoid people that are abusive, bring insecurity, drama into your life. It's the smart thing to do!
As for you being a "difficult kid/ teenager) to raise...all kids/teenagers can be disobedient towards parents, kids lie, some steal, some kids have tantrums, some swear, some are shocking at school, some experiment. What children don't speak out, they act out!! Maybe not right, but it's apart of growing up, learning consequences and how to make better choices. It is completely normal to make bad decisions in life, especially as a child, teenager. Don't let anyone make you feel guilty for things you did as a child or teenager. The healthy thing to do is learn from these bad decisions.
Take care.
Steve Drettler from lcjantzi
It is hard to believe sometimes how children often reject a very loving parent who is willing to talk about things and listen. I was sad to read that your daughter has carried her judgement and punitive behavior as long as 15 years! It's as if she remembers nothing of the loving and good things that you did for her. Or maybe it is because she cannot reconcile her relationship with you and maintain her relationship with her mother. It seems to me that our children's generation has little discernment or strength of character to see that you can love both parents that have divorced. In my case, it was obvious that their dad's sex offense and continued practice of it, was the cause of our divorce but I didn't ask them to not have a relationship with him. I only asked them to be careful around him; I knew that they would need to have some kind of relationship with him.
I hope that your daughter grows to the point of understanding that you have been waiting for her and how long-suffering you have been. Maybe she takes you for granted because she can read your communiques and continue to punish you by not responding. I can't imagine any loving parent, such as yourself, deserving of such continued punitory action.
I made a very conscious decision NOT to communicate with my adult children anymore. Here's what I thought: They haven't responded to my continued, loving communication for over two years now. (I don't know how you have carried on for 15 yrs., Steve, but I may find out.) I have come to accept that they have rejected me as their mom. So be it. I can't change their mind though I've tried everything I know to do. I decided to write them one last time and let them know that I am at peace with the idea that we may never see or speak with each other again. This wasn't easy to write to them or to live with after sending it but I do feel a bit lighter and more peaceful.
Steve, I've said plenty. I hope you can find your way to peace on this path of estrangement that we have been forced to navigate. As one dedicated parent to another, I'm on your side.
He didn't approach me
After a 12 year search I found him
NL Mom Debbielg725752016
I agree with you NL Mom. Any child who can ignore his parents for months and years are not worth the trouble. How could you feel any respect or warmth for such a child? Not more than 6 months is reasonable. Anything over a year is overstepping the boundary of decency.
My father and I have been semi-estranged for about twenty five years now (since I moved out). We really haven't had a good relationship since my preteens. I can remember physical threats being made if i were to say the wrong (at about five or six years old), not to mention getting spanked VERY severely with a wooden racket over bad grades in the third grade.
Thing is, even after threatening me as a little child, he thought it was perfectly okay to constantly make remarks about my weight in high school. They even had me sent to a therapist in order to find out why i wasn't relating to other people my age.
My mother made the to move me I out after my entry level discharge from the Navy. My father then started using his house as control, and would tell me i was not welcome there unless I did exactly what he wanted, even if he was sticking his nose where it was not wanted. He would view my visits as an opportunity to criticize me about things in my life which he did not agree with, then would act puzzled when i would leave and not come back.
Fast forward to two years ago, my mother had a stroke and was put in a nursing home. He talked glibly about how it was going to bring us 'closer together'. Three phone calls to him the following week lasted no more than five minutes apiece. That hasn't changed in a year and a half, regardless of who calls who. He will call when there is something to tell me about the nursing home, that's about it. I only wish we could have a relationship, but looking it never seems like it was that way.
Leftnlonely How are things with you,Lady? Move on and make your life worth living. Life is short so make it sweet.
Allow me to present an analogy on life.
There are 3 types of Chinese tea - bitter,sweet and mild. The sweet tea does not need sugar bcs it's naturally sweet,the bitter tea can never be sweetened no matter how much sugar you add in and the mild tea is to clear your mouth of the bitter/sweet tastes. Many people forget and drink all their sweet tea in their youth,leaving them with only bitter tea in their old age. The Buddha tells us to leave some sweet tea for the later part of our life.
@Missingbill Due to cultural differences I would tell you NOT to do such a thing. Maybe westerners or white people are not superstitious like us in the East. There is a Malay (the language we use here) word called 'pantang' or taboo in English. We believe words and actions can bring good luck or misfortunes. That is the reason why if there's nothing good to say it's best to just keep quiet.
I am really an "observer" as I'm not directly involved in estrangement from adult children. I like to read the posts here and engage in discussions.
Here in the East we are still traditional and our young adults still have much filial piety toward their "entitled" parents but most of the parents here do their duty and behave themselves. 50 years ago the parents here were even more "entitled" but there was no such a thing as estrangement. I think this started with the x-generation in the west or could it have strated with the babay-boomers? here in the East it started with the y-generation but we could see this non-aggressive cancer slowly spreading. Whatever the case may be I'm now observing two young adults (both girls,both well-educated,both married to well-educated men who hold well-paid jobs) in my extended family behaving against the norm,meaning they are becoming unfilial.
Kindly let me apologise in advance if what I wrote in paragraph 1 offended you but you did as fo thoughts and opinions. Thank you
Thank all of you who responded to me. It feels so good to be heard by those who can understand. I appreciate that you are here for me and allowing me to be there for you.
I want to say here that I believe there is a "process" that I've gone through since my experience being estranged. Maybe it is much like processing a loved one's death or any loss like divorce. Though it may be unique to each person and your circumstances. For me, it seemed to follow a pattern of hurt, confusion/ denial, realization, anger and acceptance. The hardest part for me was going through the confusion, getting stuck in the anger and, my many attempts to get to acceptance (one step forward, two steps back). I don't feel any shame for being or staying in any one of these "stages" for the length of time that I needed to, in order to complete the process thoroughly. AND, I reserve the right to "back-slide" when something or someone "triggers" me. Being human, I'm complicated. But it is obvious to all that it is difficult to navigate this painful issue with our children/family that has become a seeming pandemic in the world we live.
From time to time I remember to "coach" myself with the Grace that I believe that God would give me. I tell myself, "You're angry now, but you will work through this. Give yourself time, rest, some healing balm and tackle it again tomorrow. You're almost there."
I want to say here that I believe there is a "process" that we go through when we experience being estranged. Maybe it is much like processing a loved one's death or any loss like divorce. Though it is unique to each individual and the circumstances. It can follow a pattern of hurt, confusion/ denial, realization, anger and acceptance. The hardest part for me was going through the confusion, getting stuck in the anger and, my many attempts to get to acceptance (one step forward, two steps back). I don't feel any shame for being or staying in any one of these "stages" for the length of time that I needed in order to complete the process thoroughly. AND, I reserve the right to "back-slide" when something or someone "triggers" me. Being human, I'm complicated. But it is obvious to all that it is difficult to navigate this painful issue with our children/family that has become a seeming pandemic.
From time to time I "coach" myself with the Grace that I believe that God would give me. I want to say, "You're angry now, but you will work through this. Give yourself time, rest, some healing balm and tackle it again tomorrow. You're almost there."
Someone just please tell me how this all happened to begin with. My son and i were best friends forvthe past 8 years traveled together hsd many laughs . He went bsck with an old girlfriend that he told me hurendous stories about why they broke up. Then she comes bsckmin his life. He doesnt tell me at first. But decides to tell me. Iam shocked amd not sure what to say
He adkse if she can come to the house i dsy well i guess if your going to be together i should get used to it and here she is. 6 weeks later they get married snd i get the dump. I was good to her i thought she liked me and all was mutual. Mow we are all estranged. And u csnt figure any if it out. Any help out there. Please
Leftnlonely Dear Lady,
Do not feel so bad bcs you had done your duty by your son. He's the one who should search his heart. Almost all parents do their best for their children and worry about them. Many Asian parents still go to the extent of financing the first property for every child. It's crazy but all well-heeled Asian parents do that. I don't believe parents should go to that extent. Giving them a good basic education (up to first degree) is enough. The rest is up to them.
Parents have to look out for themselves in old age. Make sure you're financially stable so that you're in control of your life. Enough of grieving. Once you've sorted out your thoughts and feelings start enjoying life. He's not worth wasting away your whole life. Move on and start living for yourself. If my adult child betrays my love and sacrifices I would turn the table on him,leave the ball in his court and make him the guilty one. In the East parents always win hands down. Then I would go out and live life to the fullest. Travel (come to the east),eat,wear comfortable good clothes,go to the casino and play a little for the fun of it hehe generally do whatever you enjoy.
Leftnlonely You're welcome. I empathise bcs I feel for someone in my extended family who is experiencing negligent and callous young adult children (they have not dared go to the extent of cutting off the parents). Now that their father is sick they are trying to wriggle their way out of doing their duty. In the east,particularly where I live,this kind of behaviour is still rare bcs the majority of the population are muslims. The teachings of Islam forbid children to wrong their parents.
I do not want to have to experience this first hand as to be treated unkindly and unjustly by one's own children after going thru' so much sacrifice and hard work is indeed very painful.
May your son come to his senses soon. Meanwhile,take care of yourself,especially your health.
Hi Everyone, I'm newly estranged from my eldest son (February). He lives with his fiancee and their 15 month old daughter. Although I haven't been allowed to see them, my youngest son (12) has been visiting as I felt it important for him to sustain a relationship with his brother and neice. However when my youngest has been returning from recent visits he's been complaining that my son's fiancee hasn't been very nice to him and his big brother has not intervened.
Also, every so often I send my estranged son an email (only communication left open by him) saying that I miss him and love him but recently he's answered twice saying he wishes I was dead.
I'm now worried about allowing my younger son's visits. I'm worried that they will be a bad influence on him. If my estranged son can message me things like that, if he can use my granddaughter as a pawn then surely he wouldn't think twice about using his little brother?
Tonight I plan to have a talk with my young son and explain that he cannot visit his brother again. Explain that as a family we're "backing off" until things have cooled down. There's also a part of me hopes that with no family link then my estranged son may just begin to think about the situation.
Thoughts please....
From mumofthree xxxc
MumofThree I am so sorry for the difficult and painful situation. If you fear for your youngest son when he visits his oldest brother, then you need to protect your 12 yo. Perhaps instead of visits, the 12 yo can talk on the phone.
Even though it feels impossible now, perhaps occasional emails or cards will keep a line of communication open and leave open the possibility of a reconcilement when your oldest son works through whatever is causing his need for distance.
That's a sad thing to hear from our adult kids, kind of feel the daughter in law may be the culprit ti this strife. If your younger son is being mistreated and your older son made that remark, then go with instinct.. Your older son can call him or write emails back and forth. There is a chance your older son may cut you off entirely, but he doesn't seem to be giving you the respect you deserve.
As for the continued emails from you to him, I've been there but not with such severe response as what you recieved. What I learned after all my kind emails reminding my own how much I loved her because felt it was important for her to know that and not getting acknowledged is that it became more painful, nobody likes rejection...so I stopped altogether because it's just important that I feel loved and if not from her, from myself.
I only have one, if I had another that's a minor I'd just focus on that one and eventually the other one can live with their words that I'm sure he regrets but will not see if you come back with words of any magnitude. Silent respond do what he said will be something he has to live with....don't be a doormat/victim, take your power back.
Just my thoughts...go with your intuition and wishing you the best!
MumofThree Wow. Poor mom. How could he say that of his own mom? All I can say is he's immature. A mature person would wish his mom good health and longevity.
We in the east NEVER curse our parents. Islam is the official religion where I live though I'm not muslim. Islam teaches that heaven is at your mother's feet and if your mother curses you 7 times the curse will come true. Being filial to your mother brings you greater blessings than being filial to your father but in Islam (as well as in buddhism) it is a big sin to ill-treat one's parents/elders. We don't dare ill-treat our parents. Even today,young muslim adults treat their parents very very well as compared to young adults of other faiths. I do envy the muslim parents here and respect their adult children.
@Healing Heart
Allot of angry mothers on this site. "I used to give my parenting report card an F but then now I give the daughter card one too"....then you continue on to write: "not worth losing quality of my life to someone that can't play nice!" Just out of interest, what do you give YOUR DAUGHTER on her "report card"? I hope it's nice.
Most are just hurt, this ain't a place to pass judgement. Choosing to no longer play victim shouldn't be dictated as anger. Being too hard on oneself compromises health, which I strongly believe nobody is worth that.
That day her grade would have been poor, but hey my long story, only walking in my shoes would be clear picture. Take care road to happiness, we are all after the same thing, just got different ways of coping
Leftnlonely. Well like they say karma will get you
After all my entitled som hasx done to me and how he has shut me out
His vehicle was stolen last night. Minimal insurance, so no.help there. No way for him snd his wife to get to work. No way y to get groceries and no friends becsuse they have also cut them off becsuse all they need is love and each other. Wonder how thats working now. Sometimes it does come around
Spirited Lady Leftnlonely
Looks like many of today's young adults learnt from Robinson Crusoe LOL but even he needed his Man Friday. I've heard that they also cut off all their friends and colleagues (they only communicate while at work) as if they only need each other. Karma indeed!!!
Leftnlonely. To the Scribe. Thst is exactlyvwhst he does every friend but 1 has been cut out of his life. He only socializes at work. That's it. He has very few friends he keeps in contact with. His best friends are gone but older friends hes had msny years ago he has contacted once again
Oh my daughter and i eill NEVER get caught in this agsin. He has run out of luck with the entire family. Thank you for noticing me.
Leftnlonely You're welcome,Lady.
Indeed,I'm wondering what's wrong with many young adults today. How come they have become so insular - insular like some americans LOL bcs the US is cut off from the continents of asia,europe and africa by the atlantic ocean. People from the UK or the scandinavian countries or a country in western europe know about south-east asia but few americans do (hopefully I don't offend well-travelled/well-read americans).
Minds become insular when people cut themselves off from others.
So far my adult children still do not have any contact.
Maybe I am fooling myself but I am actually happier than I have ever been.I was a mess when they did have contact with me. I did not see it, I was blind.
I would work all the time, all my money went to them. I could note even afford underwear, crazy, isn't it!
I am at peace that I did all I could, that I am a good person and I was a fantastic mom.
As long as I now know I did my best.
I was all broken, but my happiness and a fruitful life is now not based on my children. I will leave the door open but no longer a fool.
If they want contact or not that is their choice.
I am now in the process of having a wonderful life. I am now able to laugh.
I truly though in the beginning I was worthless because of their rejection but now I see that they have my ex's personality, they have inherited ugliness and lack of empathy.
Meanwhile I will travel, sell my house in California, buy a cute little home (paid) and as long as it is near a hospital, senior center I will have plenty to do.
I am doing good with my beekeeping, selling my honey and won first place/ blue ribbon for my honey at the fair.
Lydia Alexandra chokonoko
Take care of them bcs they take care of you by letting you earn from selling the honey. And the blue ribbon too! Congrats.
The Scribe
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attempts, the months of hospital stay for my grand baby where I spent many days and hours while almost losing my job, his death and his dear mom's broken heart and more suicide attempts. Oh, and lest I forget, I'm going through menopause this whole time. Well, maybe I just did the best darn job I could and all my mistakes don't wipe out all the loving things I did.
But it takes work to sort out the truth and love to cover over mistakes (I'm not talking real abuse, here) and 20 and 30 year olds just don't seem to have the time for it or maybe the brain development, I don't know. What I do know is that my life is more peaceful without these broken relationships and I don't desire to have those relationships. What I continue to hope, pray and believe for, are reconciled relationships with these people, based on mutual respect. I've done all I know to do to for my part. I'm open to learning new was of communicating, different approaches to to problem-solving, and creative ways of connecting to family. God helping me, I will wait and try to maintain a strong and loving place for my adult children.
What is impossible for people, is possible with God. Between the wrong-doing and the right-doing there is a field. I'll meet you there...
I'm having one of my angry days when reading to catch up with the new posts on this website. Spirited Lady wrote that we should consider giving our 20-somethings some time for their brains to develop. Well, I did that and then I was estranged. It's been two and a half years and I've wondered many times if it would have been better for me to just ave called-out my oldest on her lying, manipulating and controlling behavior when she was in her twenties. Maybe she would've respected me for requiring that she give me the respect and consideration that she gave to the other people in her life but as her mother. But no, I thought she would grow out of it. I attributed it to the complications of her dad's arrest and the subsequent divorce, her need to make "mistakes" as part of her self-discovery, her need to focus on her boyfriend, then husband and his family, her need to establish her family as she had children, and on and on until she made it clear that MY need(s) didn't matter and I should "just stop feeling that way".
I use to feel guilty because a big part of me was relieved that I didn't have to persevere any longer. I didn't have to deal with her game playing, lying and interference in my relationship with my other two adult children. But what really tops it off is how these "adult" children go to the extent of putting us in a position of having to be the one to do something that they know will make us look bad. In the case of "Leftnlonely", she will have to stop the payments and/or repossess the car. In my case, it was not giving a large amount of money as cash.
They are the ones who have damaged the relationship but they play out to make us look unfair, unreasonable, unloving.
They would be right in saying that I wasn't a good parent because, in hindsight, I should've stood up to them in a strong way during that time and disregarded the fear of risking the loss of my relationship with them. Maybe it had something to do with their dad's sexual deviancy arrest, going through the divorce, starting a new job, a daughter with an unplanned pregnancy, their use of drugs, their suicide
lcjantzi Sounds like you're still blaming yourself... playing the "what if" game. When I talked about giving them time I wasn't talking about accepting abuse. I never experienced that from my son. During his high school and college years he went through a lot of ups and downs with me but never what my husband or I felt was abuse. Once in high school he used profanity and my husband told him "We don't talk like that in this house." He apologized. Although he was sometimes moody because of other things going on... or not happening ... in his life and he had various issues with me (I tend to be late, we had an exchange student he resented), my son and I had many delightful times together when he was in college and afterwards. It seemed to depend upon the attitude of his girlfriend at the time, or whether he had one.
When he got engaged, however, he told me "You are losing a son and you are not gaining a daughter. You are not to treat her like a friend and you will not be part of our life." Apparently that was part of their marriage contract. I thought at the time this was related to his issues with me, with his father's death, etc. Yes,he said it was "because of my behavior.". But it's 6 years later and it's become clear to me that It's not about me or my son, it's about his wife and her need for control. What they meant by my behavior was my taking her to lunch, entertaining her family for Thanksgiving and inviting her to live with us for a few months so she could take a job she wanted in our community. Last year she informed me that communication from me is unwelcome. (I sent her emails a couple times a year.) That's rude, but it's not abusive. I simply don't communicate with her now. My son has communicated with me less and less as his life moves on. He sends a 2-word text greeting on my birthday and Christmas and responds to requests for info about gifts. It must be sad for him as well. But he'll never leave those kids and I don't want him to. I just pray the other parts of his life work well. But I'm concerned about the attitude and the impact on the children. My son said I could only be "a name on a card." So I send gifts to his toddlers with loving notes from Grandma.
So, you see, there are a lot of different situations. But, no, I do not advise accepting abuse in any form. And I do not advise sending gifts the way I do if they are a source of abuse.
Your daughter sounds narcissistic. If so, her relationships with others may not be as respectful as you think. It's ok to be angry with yourself for accepting years of manipulative, abusive behavior. You need that anger to stop allowing it. But you don't need to feel guilty about being loving in spite of abuse when your child was an adult. If you allowed it when she was a child, then, yes, you taught her that as a way to deal with life. But you're not responsible for her choices as an adult.
lcjantzi Here in the East it is considered shameful for adult children to neglect/ignore the parents so when parents voice this out to friends (their own and those of their children) or family the young adults feel offended with the parents. If I really hear something unpleasant about the parents I would tell them "if you feel ashamed then don't do it". I read that in the West it is the parents,especially the moms who feel shame about estrangement or being cut off by their adult children. Our cultures seem to be at opposite ends.
You wrote - "in hindsight, I should've stood up to them in a strong way during that time and disregarded the fear of risking the loss of my relationship with them." There are actually two sides to a coin. Being too tough could also bring negative results. However,I notice that always giving in and giving them everything (buying their love) could also end up the same way. That's why I wrote much earlier here that bringing up kids is like kite-flying i.e. how would parents know when to let go the string/how much to let go and when to pull it back/how much to pull back. Kite-flying is a highly skilled sport so one needs to practise but in parenting there is no such thing as perfect,no matter how many kids yo have.
If your adult child deems it fit to ignore his/her own mom/dad then let it be. Do not hanker after them. Once you stop clamouring for them they will come to you. Once you stop bothering they will get worried. I remember I wanted my parents' approval until the day they passed away so I guess it's the same with all children.
lcjantzi I totally agree with you when you say 'they are the ones who have damaged the relationship but they play out to make us look unfair, unreasonable unloving'. I too have walked on eggshells for so long as I knew one word from me that would even look like criticism would send him running and yet his father and I are the ones that are always in the wrong. About a year ago we were invited to my son's and his girlfriend's house to see if we could put things right but my son sat in the chair with his head down the whole time and let his girlfriend ridicule us and tear away at our core values. She spoke for my son apparently when she said we thought Dad (yes she calls us Mum and Dad) should have had a different kind of surgery (he had bladder cancer) so that it would make it easier when we went out together. (He takes longer in a washroom as he now has to catheterize)!!
The girlfriend has been a guest in my sister's home where she pretended to massage my sister's knee (she has arthritis) and told everyone later that she had pressed hard on the knee because she didn't believe my sister had anything wrong with her knee! She said I did it to test her!! My son said nothing!
I too feel angry, I am determined my son or his girlfriend will not disrespect me ever again. I have cut off all correspondence to him, if he wants to mend this relationship the ball is in his court. (By the way my son is 50 years old) I am at the point where I am wanting to change my will to leave all to charity and to people who do respect me. My husband wants us to hold off but he too feels it is almost hopeless.
My anger does subside and I am carrying on my life and enjoying it, I see no alternative. I am determined that they will not ruin my life.
Violet lace
I needed your reply. It was so affirming to me when you used the words, "walking on eggshells". Oh, phew, you got it! That's exactly how I felt, increasingly, for almost 10 years.
I felt sad that your son allowed his girlfriend to talk to his parents about such a grave matter and without any empathy but you've indicated that this is a just one of a series. I wonder if your son's overt posture displayed his inner, silent shame and/or turmoil. In any case, I'm sure you were looking for him to speak up. Even to say he agreed would at least let you know where you stood with HIM. What I mean is, I was able to deal more easily with my middle daughter's out-and-out anger at me rather than when she allowed her older sister to do all the communicating.
I, too, have seriously contemplated the idea of changing my will but I felt that had to wait until my anger no longer influenced my decision. I'm almost there and I think the time is a factor. It's been 2.5 years and I'll wait another six months and probably make the major changes. What makes it harder is that I'd like to leave it to my grandchildren but have no way to get their SS numbers.
I'm enjoying my life too. I'm still hopeful and it will not define my life either.
Thanks again for your reply!
violetlace lcjantzi I envy people like you who as you say - i am carrying on my life and enjoying it. Its probably because you have a partner, whereas my partner had trouble keeping his zipper up, was a gambler and cleaned us out. I therefore worked 2 jobs to put my son through a private education and i purchased a house that on my 60th i finally paid off. Over the years i lost all contact with people/friends as i was working whilst my son was at school and working whilst he slept with a paid child minder staying in.
I think thats why it has hit me so hard, and has totally crushed me. I now have inflammation of the colon and depression big time. I am so dead inside that its as if i sleepwalk. My son also totally abandoned me once he met someone. What he owns i gave to him all my inheritance as i know he's frugal and clever with money. I dont regret it nor resent it to be honest, but he has totally wiped me out of his life. At 68 where do you go and start somewhere again, as i have this incredible desire to pack and leave and live elsewhere, downsize and spend my money on me, pampering myself as thats what i did for others for over 22 years (thus giving me flexibility to see my son in all the things he was performing in at school) .
The idea of having a decent hairdresser and not DIY (here in the UK i lost my pension in the recession and solely exist on the state pension) have lovely massages and reflexology, go on nice trips with Saga (holidays for those over 50 and many are single) instead of living in this existence.
When your sons girlfriend spoke on his behalf did you not say to him - and what do you thing ? Why was he so reluctant to talk for himself. It appears to me that she has earbashed him about it, and wanting her not to leave him he has gone alone with what she says. If he honestly thought what she is saying was right would he not voice his opinion, after all its his body not hers.
Your son behaves like my father, for peace sake goes along with it all, but when there is nobody to blame (in my case everything that was wrong with my mothers life was my fault) because you will passed on - he wont know what hit him. After i left home my mother totally destroyed my father and he had a complete breakdown. He was a vicar and the church sacked him.
One of the things i learned years ago - though didnt use it with my son is - WE TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO TREAT US. I applaud your strength of character in how you get on with things. I too have felt like changing my will and leave it to whoever ends up taking care of me in my latter years. I cant see any change where my son would want to make me part of his life.
Best wishes to you all. X
My adult son and I were very close, we traveled together, had great times. Alwats had plans together. He got married to a very nice gurl. I understood our relationship would change. Her and I got along well. Then all of a sudden my son became very angry, he accused me of lying to him, which I did not, he saud I was harrassing him Everytime I tex him, I was very gspoy for him. Then bam, he changed his phone number, y
Tokd me to diconnect thepkan we had together because she would not pay it and also refused to pay a bank loan I took out in my name for his wife's car. I have nit heard a word in6 montgs iam just sick over this snd dont kniw what to do. I miss him very very much. What can I do, no means of communication except mail. Iam in Pa he is in Maui
Leftnlonely
Sometimes we will never know why. That is so damn hard for me to accept. Your pain is shared by others. You are not alone. I have a grandbaby that I can not see and it is breaking me into!
I have been estranged from my son for 3 years now.. He was 17 at the time and was overly disrespectful and didn't want to follow rules.. I wasn't a perfect mother because no one is but I always supported my son and provided for him.
When I was finally fed up with his behavior I reacted by telling him to follow my rules or leave my home a choice I regret since he has not returned back home he ended up going to my sisters house whom I am also estranged with and she took him in. My plan was just to have him respect me as a parent.
My son is 20 now and have recently run into him at a family friends function he was hired as a photographer. Our interaction was limited since he was working I asked him for his number which he did not give to me he gave it to his kid brother my younger son whom he has also abandoned. I tried reaching out to schedule some time to talk but he keeps referring to me by my first name and not Mom! I was so hurt! I told him I dislike that term since I am his mother and he refuses to call me mom and said that I lost that privilege when I put him out.
My heart is so broken am depressed I have been missing work I can't concentrate all Ido is think about how bad of a mother was I on his eyes to keep hurting me this way! I love my son but I feel that his continuous disrespect and hurtful behavior I must just leave him alone since it is tearing me up inside. I don't even want to talk to anyone about this because i am embarrassed. Every time I see my friends enjoying their time with their adult children i start to envy them.
I really just need to get it together if not for me but for the son that does want me in his life hopefully I will continue to have a good relationship with him but I just want the hurt to go away
Brenda Alvarado 885
So sorry Brenda. Don't be embarrassed. I also felt that question of my identity as a parent.
My boss and I are very friendly and have known each other for years. She is truly a kind person. So today when she asked me how I was going to spend my vacation, I told her it would be low key and confided in her regarding my daughter. She started to cry. Tears poured down her face as she confided in me that almost the exact thing happened to her with her son just recently. The common denominator was that our adult children are on the path to wealth and power. I could not believe how cruel her son had been to her. Our pain is something we left at the door when we went to work. I was amazed to find so many similarities to our situations.
In the end you are not the only parent experiencing this. In the end I believe as open as we are to forgiveness we need to ask ourselves what a continued relationship with our adult child entails. Do you accept that he will call you by your first name and consider that having a relationship with him as a privilege? Or do you express that you want a relationship with him but it needs to be based on common courtesy? We teach people how to treat us and they do the same. We only need to be nice to each other in our conversations and time spent together. . If not, the other party should respond with "I would love to talk to you, but you are not being nice, please call me or see me again when you can be nice" We should expect that they would say the same thing if we were cruel.
And some days are way worse than others. That depression does creep in as it should. Why wouldn't you be heartbroken? You care. I think the heartless write self help articles on how great it is to lose someone you love so you can "find your passion" and create a wonderful fulfilling life all your own. Such bull IMHO. We are allowed to grieve because we cared.
numberfiveminusone Brenda Alvarado 885 fiveminusone,
You make it so clear. It's clear as daylight that these young adults "are on the path to wealth and power." They make use of their parents as stepping stones. How deceitful! Then they turn around accusing the parents of a hundred and one things. The real reason is to wash their hands off their parents who once were their heroes but are now considered a nuisance,stumbling blocks to their success. I've heard it being said that they are making a sacrifice by cutting their parents off. I wonder who is the sacrificial lamb here. they don't want to share their success and wealth with the only people who will love them,be they a failure or a success.
If they are still struggling and need your help I bet they will pretend to be loving,at the least nice even though they are impatient with people who are slow and get in the way (and they are slow with the computer except for a handful of computer-savvy old folks). They think old people are stupid,as if they won't ever grow old and as if the computer is God.
The Scribe numberfiveminusone Brenda Alvarado 885
What wealth and power? I live on my own and it's harder than ever. It would have been beneficial to both of us if we could have helped support each other but I told her I was not going to stand for her bullying me, treating me like a servant and taking things out on me as an adult like I did has child. Screw that. I'll stay broke. I'd rather live pay check to pay check than ever live like that again. I'd rather work two jobs. I'd rather be homeless.
By wealth and power did you mean that these resourceful adults found jobs and marriages that enabled them to escape the abusive adults they were no longer forced to be dependent upon? Was that on the day they told themselves: you know what, despite everything mom and dad have said/done to me I AM actually intelligent and lovable and can make my way on my own?
Cause if this brings wealth and power I missed the memo. Someone forgot to send me the step by step.
Relica The Scribe numberfiveminusone Brenda Alvarado 885
Right! You missed it LOL.
I love how this article is gearing towards the parents (pure sarcasm), yet what happens when the adult child has tried over and over and over again to have the relationship that was never there to begin with to no avail?
My mother has told me since birth that I was the result of a failed abortion attempt, she hated me and so on. She beat me as a child severely. At age 18 she held a butcher knife to my throat telling the state police of NJ she was going to kill me. They had to escort me out of the house. My father in turn told me that I was dead to the entire family for not moving with them to Tennessee and taking on the life they wanted me to have. It took him 6 years to find me and contact me. It has been a vicious abusive relationship ever since (1994). I have tried to be the "good" daughter over and over again, only to be dismissed over and over again. This last time I was told I was dead to my mother and then when I tried again she said that I am confused and my mother died at age 93 (my grand-mother). Then just yesterday she puts on Facebook how I am estranged from her. I post their birthdays on Facebook, I send out e-mails to them each and even try to call them. I even planned on moving to where my mother lives to help take care of her if she needed it.
She posts on Facebook how I supposedly abused her, yet I wrote her stating how badly I wanted a loving relationship with her as her daughter. I thanked her for giving me birth even. NO abuse whatsoever. Never has been abuse on my end. My heart is broken at this time.
How the adult child take it? What do we do when all we want is to be loved by the ones who were supposed to raise us, nurture us and give us unconditional love?
RaeWright Having been a survivor of both situations, I, as a mother, thank you for having such a good heart.
Your mother, like mine, may have been mentally diseased, long before we gave such things labels.
My mother was and is pure evil, and I could never really see it. What would I know as her child? We look up to our parents for all things good in the world, never dreaming that they would not or could not deliver. My father was as bad as her. They were both selfish and self-centered, -narcissistic is being kind. Mirrors would have run away in fear of being told they were flawed!
My mother developed dementia, now living in her self-made hell. Long ago, my father developed a bad case of deadbeat, and hasn't made any worthy efforts at fatherhood, since. When I was told all those negative things, called names or beat up with belts, I would immediately go into my defense mode of "she really loves me.
She has good in her, she loves me, and on and on and on. I felt more like the runt of the litter than the youngest child.
"I stopped telling myself these lies of love when I felt solid about being me, and finding out it was okay to be me, flaws and all. Then I told myself, she is the sick one.
Turns out I was right... .
So fast forward, I had two children I love forever. My daughter is having issues with me and I am sure I earned them as the adult in the room. Now we are both adults. I know we will communicate in the future. That is good for me. I am learning patience for good reasons, not bad ones anymore.
Right now she is living her good life, not "Fighting the good fight!" She saw and heard enough of that when my mother and I fought in front of her, only words, but weapons of destruction nevertheless.
My mother went beyond the 'being human' excuse long, long ago. My father I just pity.
I thank this website for my sanity and new path in life.
Please don't let broken people break you.
Facebook is not your friend. Ignore it. Free up your mind so it won't give your mother any more free rent in it.
When my mother's disconnects began, she said mean hurtful things to everyone. They weren't spoken because of disconnections in her brains, they were spoken because all the censorship filters wore away. She really meant what she said, the difference being, she no longer cared who heard what she had to say. She is mean to everyone, accuses everyone of the worst things, has become extremely hard to tolerate and no one wants her negativity to touch their lives.
We can only live our own life the best way possible. That is all we have to account for. I hope you know that it is not your fault. Give yourself the hugs you so richly deserve. Allow others to be a positive part of your life. This helped me realize that there are so many good people in the world, and, oh, now I'm one of them. And you are too! Thank you for being here!
RaeWright Rae,it's time to move on and leave them alone. If I live in the US I could "adopt" you LOL but I live on the other side of the globe. It's now Wednesday,24 August 2016 9.50am while your time is 9.50pm Tuesday 23 August 2016.
Your pain is REAL but give them time to come to their senses. Parents don't know what's eating their children and vice-versa because there's no real communication. Nobody wants to talk about the real reasons why they are behaving this way because they are afraid that they will sound petty and in most cases the reasons are actually petty. That's why the world is at war. People cannot put aside their pettiness.
RaeWright Stop torturing yourself, if things are as they are they will never get better. My mother constantly told me all through my childhood how she wished i was never born. She beat me, spat at me, and would pull my by the hair so often i had patches. My father would then belt me for upsetting my mother. I came home 20 minutes late from school as i had missed my tram after having to stay back with others to put away the sports equipment - on arrival home she grabbed me and viciously beat me, and called me a prostitute, i had enough and that evening i took all my fathers heart tablets and ended up on the cardiograph machine. When i recovered i was given a belting for upsetting mother. It was my mother who put me there. My father wanted peace at home no matter the cost, and so mother was always right. When i left at 19 she turned on him, divorced him and the church sacked him. He died a broken man.
A lovely friend who is a historian and a retired oxford professor in history offered to find where my family origins were , and where they came from. He was surprised when i said - and meant it, i am not the least bit interested. They are both passed on and one would think that would be the end. I try hard to push childhood memories out of my head, but they come back in my dreams. Your photo is of a young face so don't waste your years trying to be loved, learn to love yourself and me your own best carer.
If life at home is so toxic, constantly, you have to break ties and leave. They will destroy you totally. I became a mother and gave my son all of me, never hit him nor abused him. He had a first class private education from 2 all the way through to Uni. I gave too much of me as i got so little when i was a child. The result is that when my son met someone he now has totally abandoned me and never calls. I now am trying to crawl out of dark lonely existence and at 68 its not easy, as i am not equipped emotionally to deal with what to me is an enormous loss. But don't stay where you are, it wont get better so don't expect miracles. You have to go out and make your own life as best you can.
I wish you warmth and love, Lydia
RaeWright
So sorry Rae. This article and most of the posts are geared towards parents. But with that said it IMHO estrangement is about being betrayed regardless if it is the parent or child being betrayed. You describe a horrific childhood and continued abuse to you as an adult. My heart hurts for you. You did not deserve this, you do not deserve this. I want to reach out and give you a hug. So many of us, mothers, daughters, sons, fathers who just don't understand why we are not good enough to be loved. We all are of course, but when family treats you like you are not it just leaves us so hurt and empty. My mother was much the same as your mother. I posted how IMHO opinion the family cycle of abuse continues. A child is raised abused. That child tries to raise his/her children with extra everything to make them feel loved. That child becomes selfish and a narcissist and raises their children in a cold and abusive way. The cycle is then repeated over and over again with each generation almost guaranteeing estrangement for the next generation.
Please don't let the article being geared towards parents dissuade you from support. We as mothers and fathers have support to give you. We want you to be happy. We wish we had raised our children to be a kind and loving as you appear to be. We wish you happiness and love and we are down right pissed off that you are not receiving it. Come to my house RaeWright and I will brush your tears away, draw you a bath, and light candles in the bedroom you will sleep in. I will have lit candles and hope you enjoy the high speed internet as you text your friends and catch up on the latest shows. I will prepare your favorite food and beam from ear to ear if you say you like it. When you tell me you are going out with your friends I will ask you if you need my credit card. I am so happy you are here with me and sharing your life with me. I as a parent am just like you as an adult child. I just want to be seen and loved. We are kindred spirits. I wish you all the best.
numberfiveminusone RaeWright I am touched by your kind reply to Rae.
I especially like this "...IMHO estrangement is about being betrayed regardless if it is the parent or child being betrayed." Indeed,it IS betrayal of the worst kind.
They might not have done it yet but threats are just as bad. Long ago children were afraid of getting chased out by strict parents. Today's young adults bully their parents by threatening to cut them off. They have found a weapon to keep their parent "in check" which really means they know that such threats give them control over their parents.
I for one would love to have you for my daughter. My son does not speak to me, will not answer letters, does not send me birthday cards or call me on the phone. As far as I know I have
done nothing to deserve this.
I am so sorry for your situation. It is puzzling to me the attitude of your parents. What happens between you and your sister is really your business. I can't understand your sister either
for telling your parents what goes on between you and her. This seems to be a childish thing to do. I wonder if she is jealous of you for some reason?
If only families who are in conflict would come together and communicate and try and work something out but most don't want to.
I do feel your pain Ginger, All any of us can hope for is that one day our loved ones will come around and things can be worked out. In the meantime though I think we should carry on with our lives and try not to let this rift in our relationships control our thoughts.
I wish you all the very best.
violetlace Thank you for saying you would like me as your daughter. I agree with your last comment about carrying on with our lives and not letting this rift control our thoughts. I believe at some point we need to just let it be and focus on what we have in our lives that makes us happy. I assume your comment about my sister being jealous is correct because I can find no other explanation for her continued behavior. As for my parents, I don't think I'll ever understand their perspective.
A ray of sunshine came into my life 4 years ago when a long-time friend of my mother's pulled me aside and told me she believed I had been "overlooked" and that she supported me and I was not alone. She has been around the family for 30 years and knows the personalities. She subsequently calls me once or a twice a year just to chat and continues to be a bright light in my life.
I also agree with you that families in conflict don't seem to want to work things out. I am so impressed with the parents on this site because they find it looking for answers and open to resolutions.
violetlace Dear violetlace,
You do not have to feel guilty. No need to blame yourself. Your son does not want to share his life with you for reasons only he knows best. He wants to live in isolation. Read what *fiveminusone* wrote to me here and you will understand why some young adults behave this way. She explained very clearly,using Erik Erikson's theory about young adults to illustrate her points. This behaviour has become a cancer among young adults today,even in traditional cultures like mine,especially among us overseas Chinese. In mainland China and Chinese Taiwan the situation has not become a scourge as yet compared to what we overseas Chinese are experiencing.
Do watch some made-in-China and made-in-Taiwan romance dramas or comedies online (there's a lot available on YouTube f.o.c.) to see how deeply mainland and Taiwanese Chinese value family and their elders (even those not family or blood-related. In most cases they will not be unkind to elders. Art mirrors real life so I won't say such an attitude in modern China/Taiwan is an exaggeration). You will enjoy such dramas which place great importance on the family,on the elders in a family and the relationship between children and parents. The children might leave in a huff because many parents try to exercise complete control over their lives but eventually the parents and children will come to a compromise. The parents will realise that they cannot dictate to their children (and in many cases order their lives for them to the extent of trying to force them to marry partners of their choice) or they will lose them and the children learn that they have to show their parents what we call filial piety. Parents can consider themselves very lucky when their children are filial - care for them,concerned about them,show them kindness,take care of them when they are sick,give them some money even if they are multi-millionaires,and most of all share their lives with their parents. All the best to you.
I take solace in the postings on this site, but my heart breaks. It seems most of the posts come from parents, but I am an adult daughter with a distanced relationship with my parents. I want to cut them off entirely so I can have an end to the turmoil, but I won't. Turmoil has been increasing since I turned 30, and am now in my mid-40"s. The turmoil mostly starts with my older sister who stirs the pot, and our parents (in their 70's) always jump into it. My sister and I are different people with differing opinions. As a result, we have conflicts - but nothing real bad. She continuously informs our parents of all details of each conflict or disagreement. Within a few days, they call me and tell me how wrongly I behave with her. It is minor stuff such as not attending one of my sister's kid's recitals or soccer games. They think I'm not involved enough in my sister's life or that I don't really love her. I get only negativity and judgement from them. I have asked my parents to stay out of conflicts my sister tries to pull them into, but after a quick agreement, they jump back in the next time my sister calls them. I've asked my sister to keep our parents out of our disagreements because it is hurtful but she just replied, "No, It hasn't been that bad and I'm not changing". I told her that leaves our relationship in a bad place.
I think my parents have developed a negative mind-set about me based on years of my sister's negative dialog. A few years ago my dad said I treated him and my mother very well, but he thought I should be more attentive to my sister. He further said he didn't care if I never talked to him again as long as I had a good relationship with my sister. I thought at the time he was exaggerating, but I believe now that he was truthful. He stopped calling me about a year ago. He only talks to me on the phone if my mom calls, which is not that often. My dad used to call me on my birthday, but he stopped doing that about 5 years ago.
I always celebrate mother's day, father's day and their birthday's with them. I have been fortunate enough to have a good job, so I've never asked for money and they never gave me any. If a week goes by when I haven't spoken to my parents, I usually call them just to say hi. In June my mother went to visit a friend who lives out of state. Knowing my dad was alone, I went to his house and took him out to dinner one night. While at their house I noticed the father's day card I sent him was still out on a coffee table. My sister does not send cards, so my card was the only one. I thought it was sad that he so strongly supports my sister who cannot find time to get a card in the mail.
I can't help but wonder if any parents on this site would be happy to have a daughter who celebrates their birthdays, sends cards, visits them when they are alone, and still calls them? My parent's biggest complaint is that I don't spend enough time with my sister. They seem to have no regard for me, and I wonder why I even try to have a relationship with them.
GingerMaynor
You sound like a perfectly wonderful daughter and I am sure many parents on this site would be so happy to have the time, attention, love and devotion that you show your parents. I hope there are other people in your life you appreciate your kindness. If not, please take time to take care of yourself and give yourself some of the kindness and support that you give to others.
I've noticed a funny thing among young adults who have made the choice to cut off their aged parents. After some time of non-communication,out of the blue they decide to visit as if nothing had happened. Maybe their conscience had been eating them. Maybe they wanted to check out what they had lost LOL. I've never asked these young adults. They must have their own reasons to visit.
They then expect the estranged parents to welcome them like they are the prodigal son or daughter. If the parents don't (perhaps they were still feeling the hurt so at best they could only behave in a civil but friendly manner) they would later be criticised for treating their prodigal son or daughter badly. I've heard criticisms like their parents think they are hard-up for the old folks' love etc. What do these young adults expect from their aged parents after they had neglected and ignored them for months and some even for years? How do you begin to understand them? Could some kind soul please explain such behaviour? TQVM
Leftnlonely " Hi Leftnlonely,
Below I copy-pasta the very clear answer by numberfiveminusone which is self-explanatory. If you need further clarification kindly do address me again. I've highlighted whatever I think you should look at closely.
Here goes :-
"Scribe you asked a question so I will try to answer from what I believe is true.. During young adulthood psychologist Erik Erikson referred to this stage as intimacy vs. isolation. So from the 20's to late 30's some of our adult children will try to form intimate relationships such as marriage. They are willing to isolate at this stage. Which means if they feel that their closeness or conflict with a parent may get in the way of forming that intimate relationship- they are willing to distance themselves. Even estrange themselves from their parents. I believe it goes a step further. If you have raised a narcissist that narcissist may want to portray themselves in a way that is not quite true. Having family around that may differ from the narrative they have created may threaten them. It seems many of us have been too close to our grown children (and may know their weaknesses)and they may perceive this as a threat in that they need to develop their own identity and family. This is of course extreme when the need to cut off the parents or other family members arises. It may be due to selfishness or insecurity. If they are a narcissist they have taken on a character they want to portray. If they are insecure they may try to be the person they want to be.
As some young adults navigate this stage they may develop maturity and try to "mend" a relationship. As you mentioned the relationship with the parents may have been extremely damaged. The young adult may find themselves confused and not take any blame when they come back and expect the relationship to be as they left it. The parent after estrangement most likely has lost trust and is unwilling to trust again. The parent may also reflect that their life is less complicated and more rewarding with the adult child gone if they placed the needs or their adult child before their own and they trust them no longer. They may find it is good to experience that volunteer work is rewarding and taking care of their self and or their spouse in a more generous way. For example I am still extremely hurt and only about 1 month into estrangement. But I have 1K extra in my bank account (since I am not longer paying for many of my daughter's expenses) and have much more free time since I am not cleaning her house, doing her laundry or being the listening ear to her many thoughts. I now have time to volunteer, go out to eat, make new friends and travel to places I have always wanted to go. I am learning about myself away from my daughter. My husband and I experience new intimacy as only "we" get how bad this hurts and we go through this pain together. We have become a stronger unit as partners instead of "mother and father."
It is also a time to reflect on other things wrong in the relationship with your adult child that you may not have seen when you were too close. For example my daughter always liked to point out that everyone loved her more than me. This even pertained to the dogs. She would ask that we put them in a different room and then have someone open the door to see who they came to first. She always wanted to be first. Or that my grandchild (her niece) would love her more because she was "young" and would related to her better than me. I didn't realize how demeaning this was to myself until we became estranged.
I do not believe for one minute that my adult child owes me anything for the sacrifices her father and I have made for her. She did not ask me to bear her and did not ask me to be a good parent to her. It was my pleasure from the first moment I saw her. But now, I do demand respect, honesty, and kindness to anyone who wants to have a close relationship with me. Unfortunately she has not engaged in that type of behavior so I will not be up for a visit anytime soon."
From the explanation above it would seem that the young adults today are mired in self-conflict. It used to be so easy being a young adult when we were young bcs we had no choice. If you in-laws or spouse's siblings annoy/irritate/impose on you you'll simply have to take things in your stride. Cutting off a despicable or nasty relative never entered our mind.
The Scribe
They appear out of the blue as if nothing has happened because they can't face up to what they have done. It takes a very big person to admit that they are wrong. Or, they hope that whatever drove them away has changed and they are tentatively trying to reconnect without bringing up the issue.
The parents who are/were estranged would be shocked by any attempt at communication and trying to avoid anything that would drive the child away again. Tiptoeing on eggshells I imagine. I can't imagine how I would react if my son reached out to me.... I"d hope that I could sound positive but not over the top, but in reality, I really don't want anything to do with him anymore. He hurt me and I'm not putting myself back into a situation where I dwell on him constantly and cry constantly. It's taken me a long time to become myself again, and there is some semblance of happiness in my life. I can again function. I'm not going to give him the ability to hurt me anymore.
The Scribe
Scribe you asked a question so I will try to answer from what I believe is true.. During young adulthood psychologist Erik Erikson referred to this stage as intimacy vs. isolation. So from the 20's to late 30's some of our adult children will try to form intimate relationships such as marriage. They are willing to isolate at this stage. Which means if they feel that their closeness or conflict with a parent may get in the way of forming that intimate relationship- they are willing to distance themselves. Even estrange themselves from their parents. I believe it goes a step further. If you have raised a narcissist that narcissist may want to portray themselves in a way that is not quite true. Having family around that may differ from the narrative they have created may threaten them. It seems many of us have been too close to our grown children (and may know their weaknesses)and they may perceive this as a threat in that they need to develop their own identity and family. This is of course extreme when the need to cut off the parents or other family members arises. It may be due to selfishness or insecurity. If they are a narcissist they have taken on a character they want to portray. If they are insecure they may try to be the person they want to be.
As some young adults navigate this stage they may develop maturity and try to "mend" a relationship. As you mentioned the relationship with the parents may have been extremely damaged. The young adult may find themselves confused and not take any blame when they come back and expect the relationship to be as they left it. The parent after estrangement most likely has lost trust and is unwilling to trust again. The parent may also reflect that their life is less complicated and more rewarding with the adult child gone if they placed the needs or their adult child before their own and they trust them no longer. They may find it is good to experience that volunteer work is rewarding and taking care of their self and or their spouse in a more generous way. For example I am still extremely hurt and only about 1 month into estrangement. But I have 1K extra in my bank account (since I am not longer paying for many of my daughter's expenses) and have much more free time since I am not cleaning her house, doing her laundry or being the listening ear to her many thoughts. I now have time to volunteer, go out to eat, make new friends and travel to places I have always wanted to go. I am learning about myself away from my daughter. My husband and I experience new intimacy as only "we" get how bad this hurts and we go through this pain together. We have become a stronger unit as partners instead of "mother and father."
It is also a time to reflect on other things wrong in the relationship with your adult child that you may not have seen when you were too close. For example my daughter always liked to point out that everyone loved her more than me. This even pertained to the dogs. She would ask that we put them in a different room and then have someone open the door to see who they came to first. She always wanted to be first. Or that my grandchild (her niece) would love her more because she was "young" and would related to her better than me. I didn't realize how demeaning this was to myself until we became estranged.
I do not believe for one minute that my adult child owes me anything for the sacrifices her father and I have made for her. She did not ask me to bear her and did not ask me to be a good parent to her. It was my pleasure from the first moment I saw her. But now, I do demand respect, honesty, and kindness to anyone who wants to have a close relationship with me. Unfortunately she has not engaged in that type of behavior so I will not be up for a visit anytime soon.
numberfiveminusone The Scribe Thank you so very much for taking the time and the trouble to explain it so clearly to me. I've read Erik Erikson the american psychologist but could not remember what he said about young adulthood. In the olden days one marries a whole family and there was no opportunity to show any intimacy in the open but not today. I'm speaking as an oriental/an easterner but today our young are becoming very westernised and they freely show their affection in the presence of their elders. The influence of the internet has been particularly strong these past 2 decades,more so than the tv. These days we hear youngsters simply mouthing/writing the 4-letter word all over cyberspace. We don't swear this way so indeed times have changed very drastically for us here and we need to re-look our values in order to survive our young.
I guess as parents one should "know" how to strike a happy balance. There's a saying that bringing up a child is like flying a kite. How much of the string should you let go and when should you pull it back. If you let go too much you could lose the kite. Likewise,if you hold on too tightly the string might snap and you will still lose it too. So flying a kite is a skill which we learn as we go along. This parent-child dichotomy has never been more apparent than today in the east. What started decade ago in the west is slowly but surely becoming a "disease" here today.
I agree with your last paragraph when you wrote "I do demand respect, honesty, and kindness to anyone who wants to have a close relationship with me". This has always been the way with easterners because we had always believed in filial piety and in treating our elders this way. However,today the social landscape has changed so much it has become unrecognisable. It is sad but looking west is the trend and is embraced wholeheartedly as it is perceived as "progress" LOL. Whatever I think parents and elders should demand nothing less than "respect, honesty, and kindness to anyone who wants to have a close relationship with" them. Bravo!!! The young should also have a re-look at their values. Even if they don't owe the world anything they should behave within the bounds of decency as far as parents and elders are concerned. TQVM.
Spirited Lady The Scribe numberfiveminusone Indeed it is a very tough situation in China (I've been there only twice for a total of 25 days only i 1992 and 2008 so you would know better since you lived there for 5 years) now bcs they had the one child policy for many decades. Looks like they are relaxing the rules a little. Farming families had secretly been having more than one child anyway bcs sons are needed to work the farms. These days though young adults leave their rural homes for the city so despite having two or more children the old folks are eventually left to fend for themselves. It seems the Chinese government has legislated laws that a child must not only visit his parents a certain number of times a year but must also give the parents monetary support.
In Singapore if a parent reports a child for neglect the law can force the child. Forcing is not good. I am Han Chinese but I live in one of the south-east asian countries. Free good quality medical service is not an issue here but if one does not have a pension or wealth from business then old age could be a huge challenge as many young adults are struggling to set up life. They are finding it difficult to support their parents financially. Both spouses could be graduates with high incomes yet times are very challenging with runaway corruption in government and other types of mismanagement in the public sector. Even parents who are financially independent are somehow neglected by their busy,struggling children.
What you wrote about applying western behaviours/attitudes to eastern culture is so true. It is not only devastating. It is very harmful to the whole social fabric of our societal setup but the young cannot see the havoc and destruction an alien culture will wreak on the long-held traditions and practices of the east. We could only watch helplessly as our young warmly embrace everything western that has swept across Asia as far away as Mongolia. It is only now that we are experiencing parent-child estrangement/shunning and what not which the Y gen have dared to consider. The only country on earth that is not badly affected today could perhaps be Bhutan at the foot of the Himalayas. It is the only country on earth that uses happiness and not wealth as a barometer to measure the health of the nation.
Lydia Alexandra The Scribe Spirited Lady numberfiveminusone Dear Lady,
Thank you for your kind words. Although I am Han Chinese and discussed China with Spirited Lady I live outside China. I am what you call overseas Chinese. I am not a citizen of China.
It is only our cultures that are different but we all share the same feelings and concerns. It is good that we can gather here and peacefully discuss an issue that has become a thorn to today's elderly.
If I have the opportunity and the money Bhutan is one country I would like to see. The country controls the annual number of tourists to protect the environment. The government has already implemented a daily levy on tourists. It is expensive as the levy is in USD. Imagine if you come from say Taiwan where 1USD is equivalent to roughly NT$30. If the levy is 100USD a day a Taiwanese would have to pay the equivalent of NT$3000. You'll have to be a rich Taiwanese to visit Bhutan for a week. Bhutan's young king is American-educated and a benevolent king. He is highly concerned about his people's happiness. If a country is well-managed with corruption at a minimal level then it is easy for the citizens to be happy. Buddhism is the official religion and you can be jailed if you preach/try to convert a Bhutanese to another religion
Spirited Lady The Scribe numberfiveminusone The Chinese in China learn their English from the Americans. They have learnt well and fast. When I first visited in 1992 very few Chinese could speak English but when I went again in 2008 I could communicate with many young Chinese in Englsih. I learnt mine from the Irish. I cannot spell without the "u" - words like behaviour,flavour, harbour, neighbour LOL when I see words that don't have the "u" I feel annoyed. It's my British English heritage. I feel uneasy listening to China's version of Mandarin Chinese. Almost all young Chinese are unable to speak Chinese dialects. The Mandarin Chinese that is spoken by every Chinese,even by very very old people is not a Chinese language while the Chinese dialects are Chinese languages. Mandarin belonged to the Manchus who colonised China from 1644-1911.
You were perhaps the first white person the 92 year old living in a village in China had ever seen LOL. If you were blonde and have blue eyes and went to China or India say 300 years ago they might think you were a goddess (you might have read the Rudyard Kipling's book The Man Who Would Be King).
Yes,traditions can be abusive. Man can be a slave to tradition if he blindly clings to tradition as not every practice is good or beneficial. My paternal grandfather grew up in China but migrated to British Malaya when he was about 20. He was verbally abusive toward his wife,daughters,grand-daughters (children of his sons) and even his daughters-in-law. He had no relationship with his daughters' children and sons-in-law as they were considered "outside" family. Sons and the children of sons and the daughters-in-law were considered "inside" family. It is still being practised by the Chinese today,even by overseas Chinese but girls today receive high education and are better off. Females traditionally received much ill-treatment. Confucius taught about filial piety but he also had a warped attitude toward the female gender so whenever Confucianism was in favour with the ruling emperor women would have a hard time and legalism (harsh rule of law) would be practised.
A true episode illustrates very clearly my paternal grandfather's warped attitude toward women. When my father was a child his paternal grandmother from China visited my grandfather in the then British Malaya. A circus came to town. The roads from one town to the next was not yet macadamised in the 1930's so they were simply dirt tracks. Transportation was mostly on foot or by bicycle. The circus troupe walked the animals through the village to get to the next town. My paternal great grandmother had never seen an elephant or a tiger in her life although China has such animals. She was so frightened she fell ill with fever. Instead of being sympathetic my grandfather scolded his aged mother for being foolish. He was "abusive" even to his own mother. The only way we can overcome this kind of abuse is with a western education. On the other hand,it is western education that has wreaked havoc on the traditional life in the east today. We are faced with a dilemma LOL. I had never felt any moral conflict though the education I received was 100% western (my values were traditional + catholic universal values) yet the young adults today are full of conflict despite some of them having received a traditional Chinese education for 6 years of elementary school.
numberfiveminusone The Scribe I envy your incredible strength of character. Are you able to give me any idea as to why my son who is a law graduate from oxford, who has had a private education from two and a half years, primary school, high school and college for 4 years (his choice where he did 5 academic subjects and then chose which one to take as a degree) then a 3 year degree and graduated in Law turning to me with his degree in his hand and said to the amazement of other parents, this is for you Mum because without you i would not be standing here. He now has a live in lady from a family where Dad had problems keeping his zipper up and left home, and mother turned to the bottle where now she suffers with blindness. Its his first serious relationship at 32 so a slow starter. She has no level of conversation, i have no idea what the common denominator is - but i am out of the picture. His choice not mine. I am baffled. I today have been diagnosed with inflammation of the Colon, stress related as i have trouble keeping food down.
My son has never asked for money, (though it was my choice to give him my inheritance as i had a toxic and abusive childhood and didn't want the payout) is very together in his position at work and in his private life. He has many friends, colleagues at work think the world of him and he has had excellent references from school into his area of work when moving from one department to another. Because i have brought him up on my own, i feel that this is why I feel so incredibly empty. I prayed daily for him to meet someone as i didn't want him to feel the loss in my passing, so i dearly wanted him to have someone in his life and would often say this to him. I simply am no longer part of his life as it appears. At 68 its hit me hard.
Lydia Alexandra numberfiveminusone The Scribe
Lydia was your question directed at me or the Scribe? If it was not me I apologize for my answer. Every relationship is unique so I can only offer possible answers. It seems that very close relationships between parents and children can become "enmeshed," This is where we are very close with each other, share common personality traits and views on life and "get" each other. We are super close and boundaries may blur for the parent and child together, or one or the other. This IMHO becomes a problem if the parent or child is clingy and needy. Or if the grown child or parent cannot allow distance for the other. For example it is normal for an adult child to take a spouse and create "their" family. But it is not normal to cut close parents or family out of their life or "dump" them when they create that transition to this stage. So why do they do this?
Possible reasons include low self esteem, fear of disapproval, immaturity, differences in value systems or control issues. For example, an adult child who has recently experienced rejection by a romantic partner may choose to prove that partner wrong. They may choose to covet what that former partner held dear and "win" by showing them they have exceeded their goals. More specifically if that former partner valued money, beauty, status, partying, whatever it was they will one up them to gain back their self respect. It's an ego trip and they won't let anyone (even mom or dad) get in the way. The root problem is insecurity or narcissism. They may choose to embrace a value system that is not their norm and will not allow anyone to be a moral compass in achieving a remedy for their ego injury. They may choose a new value system to soothe an ego injury. They may not have developed a healthy identity and are being swayed by their emotions regarding rejection.
For others- they may fear disapproval by the parent that will get in the way. They know they love their parent and that parent's opinion will hold great value. If they believe their parent will not approve they remove the parent in their life. They are willing to destroy relationships to achieve intimacy. This is not a healthy way of going about things and will result in further isolation down the road.
Or the parent has an unrealistic view of the relationship they had with their child. For example the narcissistic parent who truly believed all was right in the world while they bowled their child over with their wants or their needs. The adult child truly needs to escape to find themselves. They were not able to do it in adolescence so they do it as a young adult when they have better tools.
From what you have described with your son (32 years old and a slow starter) I wonder if he has isolated himself due to feelings or rejection from a female who he fell in love with. Now that he is willing to become intimate again he fears rejection again. He is putting his whole heart and soul into this new relationship and is willing to destroy a close relationship with you so that he may give his "all" to this new relationship in hopes that he achieves true intimacy. Somewhere along the line (please forgive me for saying this) something went wrong with his relationships with females and I suspect previous rejection. If so- you my dear are collateral damage for him to gain intimacy. You need to take care of yourself. Your gut is inflamed due to stress. Now is the time to learn more about yourself and to take care of yourself.
And also take a good look at your adult child for substance abuse/alcohol issues. My adult child was by her own words and by her actions was very happy with her life. She fell in love with a man who abused RX drugs. She started to take ADHD drugs (she does not have ADHD) during the day and started to drink alcohol and night to "relax" as he did. She suffered an ego injury (perhaps for the first time in her life) and is taking a drug that acts as an amphetamine. She needs alcohol at night to counter that effect to sleep. With that said she dumped her fiance and had her new love at her house that night. So there are issues with her character that I ignored and possibly contributed to by my unwavering support of my adult child. With that said parents are not the sole influence in their child's life.
I would like to say that again. Parents are not the sole influence in a child's life. As the child becomes an adult they are influenced by not only their parents but their genetics, their peers, co-workers, corporate culture, and their experiences. We as parents always want to reflect on how we failed our adult children. In the anger stage of grief we want to blame them. But mostly we are looking for an answer in how the heck things got so bad so quick. And we may never know. Our adult children have their secrets just as we have ours. We may never know the why.
In the end I hold this true. Love your adult children. Hope and pray they are happy and fulfilled with or without us. But please expect them to treat you with the kindness and respect that they would treat a co-worker, boss, neighbor, or friend. You deserve that much as a parent.
numberfiveminusone Lydia Alexandra The Scribe My question was to anyone who wanted to give me an insight into why this suddenly has happened. I have read your reply and i marvel at your wide understanding and knowledge. May i ask if you have studied psychology at any level or are you just incredibly well read on the subject and if so from where can i gain this knowledge as well.
You're right, our children have secrets, and there may be a possibility that my son was rejected by a female at some stage though i am not aware. When he left home and bought an apartment i saw him weekly, and nothing was said nor discussed regarding relationships. He then sold his apartment and another rental that he let out and bought the house that he now lives in. Has had the whole place rewired, new windows, re-plastered, and now has extensions going on at the back with builders. He is busy. Meanwhile he and partner live in one room with only 10% of his clothing the rest is at my house.
Some time back i phoned as his partner at 24 was having her wisdom teeth extracted. I said that he may consider buying her a mouth wash for that reason (not the normal mouth wash), as when i had mine done at 23 you cannot clean your teeth but you need to keep your mouth free of infection and keep it clean. I thought with a course he needs to be signed off for by end of year, all the goings on in his house, working long hours, and partner has moved in, that's the last thing he may consider. I also said as he is considering to rent the upstairs whilst he and partner live downstairs when the building work is done, he must be aware as she does shift work, having male tenants may be a problem. Imagine he has gone for the day, she is sleeping in the day and some guy decides to create problems. After all they are not family but complete strangers. He went absolutely nuts shouting at me to "stop organising" anything needed has been addressed.
I was shocked at the anger he showered on me. That was the first time i saw this behaviour and over time he has become totally distant. My mother on her death bed told me that as a mother she was very poor. Apart from the mental, physical and emotional abuse i endured almost on a daily basis from my mother with a father a vicar that looked the other day i had no warmth, demonstrative affection, kindness - whatsoever. I heard my son once say to his friend who stayed over as my location was an easy connection to where they needed to go, my mother is very mothering (when i cooked them a breakfast and packed food for their trip) which i find normal. My sons friend had lost his mother when young and showed surprise that i bothered. I always had my sons friends over to visit or for birthdays etc., and i would take each and everyone home as i found this the decent thing to do. I would ask my boy to walk them to their front door. This was during high school years not when he was working.
You can gather from this that i was very involved with anything that needed doing that involved my son. He has left home, that's fine, though at times when there has been a hick-up he would ask if i could pick them all up from an airport as flight was delayed and they had no way of getting home as public transport had stopped. No problem.
Perhaps i was too involved, though i didn't push ever nor was i nosy. I would always say - if you want me to help just say and leave it that way.
Lydia Alexandra numberfiveminusone The Scribe
I have studied psychology only on a basic level for my profession. Having my mother and my sister cut ties with me (and most everyone else in the family) led me to search for answers. I have been fortunate to have access to a University library for research articles. I have poured over thousands of them. I also have friends (doctors and nurses) who work in psych and addictive medicine. I have been able to bounce ideas off of them. The most valuable resource I have found is my husband who speaks from his "gut." Uncanny how accurate he has been. He is a very observant regarding human nature.
I am very sorry your son took your concern for his partner as being "too organizing." I believe your suggestions were valid and made with love.
numberfiveminusone Lydia Alexandra The Scribe I'm sure Lydia directed her question at you. Thank you for such a comprehensive answer. You seem very clear about this whole complicating issue. My friends used to say that after the age of 20 children are emotionally and mentally more stable and they will be safe. However,looking at/reading about young adults today i think they are still exposed to all kinds of danger until their 30's. This is because there are so many influences all around them.
I find your paragraphs 2-5 so enlightening. Thank you so much.
After reading through some of the posts here I can't help thinking that this is a worldwide social landscape among young adults today. Why are they treating people who had nurtured them,cared/sacrificed for them for 25-30+ years so callously? I cannot,for the life of me,understand how they could be so selfish,self-focused and unfeeling. How could parents who had given their all to bring them up be called "toxic" once they become financially independent?
Everything is honky-dory until the parents fall sick or are unable to meet their needs. Today's young people make use of their parents,then discard them when the tide turns. Even if they don't love their parents for whatever reason and have an axe to grind with them where is their conscience and gratitude? True,they never asked to be born. However,according to karma whether they like it or not they WILL be reborn,if not by this set of parents by another which could be a thousand times worse. They could be born into some family which is on the brink of starvation or they could be born into a family in a war-torn country. Were the parents not the ones to give them the opportunities to enjoy whatever they have achieved now? If the parents had not given them life they would never have been able to enjoy themselves now. When they taste the sweetness of life they forget their parents but when it comes to bitterness they blame the parents.
I'm in the east,south-east asia to be exact and the social climate here is the same. Many young adults today do not practise filial piety anymore. The Buddha said we should NOT drink all our sweet tea at the beginning of life and leave all the bitter tea to the end. We must leave some sweet tea for the end too and drink some bitter tea in our youth. Many of today's youth do not know this precept. Today's youth are so hellbent on enjoying life that they ignore their filial duty toward their parents and elders. Neglected old folks are increasing in number these days,even in the east where filial piety had been practised for thousands of years. This is the phenomenon that began toward the end of the last century.
Their children watch how they treat their old folks and when their turn comes they might experience worse. There is an old Chinese story about a son who carried his aged and sick father to the mountain in a basket. He left his father day. His own young son tagged along. When his father deposited his grandfather somewhere on the mountain the young boy said to his father,
"Pa.don't forget to take the basket home". The father asked why.
The young boy replied, "So that I could bring you up the mountain when you grow old."
LLWright Spirited Lady
Indeed it's a good idea to let things run its course. Even your body will recover if you let a cold run its course. Such children do not deserve their parents' fuss etc.One day she will realise she needs you and will come back to you on her own accord. She will realise how much her son loses. Good luck and God bless.
Right now my daughter is trying to pick fights with me via text and even cussed me out which has never happened before. I think she is trying to make me the bad guy so she can have a reason to totally cut me off. I think it is hard for her to save face with her friends because they know me so well and are confused at her actions. Even when they call me and ask me why she is acting this way I never say a bad word. I just say "well this is what makes her happy so we need to be happy for her." I think she wants to give them a reason she dumped us so they don't have sympathy and she isn't embarrassed. I am choosing to not respond in a negative way to her texts. So she continues to push. This makes me not want to respond at all. It is so very hard.
I was wondering how many of us estranged parents had abusive parents and families? My family and my husband's family were horrible. We went out of our way not to parent as we were raised. We never hit our children, we negotiated the rules as they grew so that they were respected. We gave them every opportunity we were denied and just showered them with love, money and kindness. My heart goes out to those adult children who were raised by narcissists and abusers who read our posts and think we must be lying and the true story resides with our children because they can't believe that this type of parenting results in estrangement. My heart also goes out to us parents who are told we must have been selfish and estrangement must be our fault.
So I want to warn adult children of abuse to not go overboard in raising your children. Do not give them everything and overly praise them. Do not put them as the center of the universe or you may find yourself estranged one day when your child decides they no longer need you. It seems counter intuitive to believe what I am telling you but read our stories and you will see a pattern. I think that is why estrangement is multi-generational. I was raised by an abusive narcissistic mother and we became estranged because I would no longer tolerate the abuse. I spoiled my child to the point of making her a narcissist. She will raise her children as a narcissistic mother. The pattern will probably repeat itself over and over again through the generations.
numberfiveminusone I am stunned by what you have said, utterly stunned as its so true. My mother despised me with a passion, everything was my fault, i was told constantly that she wished i was never born, she beat me physically, would pull my hair back and spit at me quite often when she was in one of her rages, for stealing money which she then would find but never apologise, or if late from school (sports practice) she would never greet me with a warm hello , always with rage like a lunatic. I took all my fathers heart tablets at the age of 12 and ended up in hospital on a cardiograph machine. I had enough of it all. I was fed up with spending my lunch hours at school hiding my belt marks on my legs as we wore tunics and short socks. When i eventually came home, it was my fault that i had put my mother through that embarrassment of ending up in hospital. My father a vicar looked the other way. Thats why i dont go to churches - i was brought up by christians?
My sister told the vicar at my mothers funeral how i was physically and emotionally abused. It is why my sister wont have anything to do with me and hasnt spoken to me since my parents passing. Her reason is that seeing me again would bring back what she as a child (8 years younger) would see. I wanted to give my boy the kind of upbringing that i would have liked to have. I always talked to him not at him, my mother only spoke to me to criticise me. I never hit him and i gave him my time when i wasnt working. There weren't any relationships, only friendships so that if i was invited i would take my boy as well. I didn't spoil him, but i gave him a private education and bought a house myself so though bills and fees were paid there wasnt a great deal to splash out on, though everything he needed he got. I gave him my inheritance as i could not bring myself to use it, and he used it well, flipping it a couple of times with properties he now has a lovely house and he is only 32.
My mother was beautiful and knew it, she destroyed all my photo albums before she died - all 5. The whole house was full of her photos only, there wasnt one of me.. Long stunning dresses that i looked lovely in were cut up and made into short dresses for my mother to wear. She was blond blue eyed and beautiful and my father did everything to please her, and after i left home she turned on him and everything was his fault. She eventually left him, divorced him and the church sacked him. She soon found another man to share her life with, whereas my father had a complete breakdown.
A narcissist mother most certainly. I never run my parents down to my son. I would also be with him on our visits (every 4 years abroad) and his relationship with them was different. He had a grandma and grandad and wrote and phoned them often. Now that he has his lovely house and a lady in his life, i am totally forgotten about. I would honestly like to know why.
Lydia Alexandra numberfiveminusone
So sorry Lydia.
Lydia Alexandra numberfiveminusone I am so sorry for how your mother treated you. It's amazing that you survived that kind of trauma. It's also amazing that with that history you were able to be a gentle, accepting mother. Your son is still at a stage in life now referred to as "late adolescence." In other words, he's still finding out who he is and how he fits into the world. Our society has become so complex that what acculturation, which at one time was largely accomplished by the late teens or early twenties now requires another decade. During these stages young people are still quite self-centered. It doesn't mean he always will be.
It sounds like you need to focus on your own life and develop friends you do things with. Your son may never be interested in spending much time with you. My son got married and moved far away. His wife dislikes me and they have said I can only be "a name on a card." My son and I are not estranged. He's not angry about anything. But it is far from my idea of family. I grew up with grandparents I saw most days. My son was very close to my mother even though we were in different communities.
But they get to choose. And we might as well come to terms with our own emotions. I do a lot of volunteer work. What I like best is facilitating a class at the women's prison to help young mothers who are incarcerated come to terms with their addiction and the childhood abuse that led up to it.
I suggest you think of something that pulls at your heart and get involved helping. That's what does the most to comfort me..
Spirited Lady Lydia Alexandra numberfiveminusone
My daughter and i have always been close. She had a baby a few months ago. I flew 4000 miles to be there. Her BF was a complete jerk. My husband and I had paid their housing deposit, bought furniture, etc., but were treated horribly. I always looked forward to my daughter having a child, it was suppose to be wonderful. Instead, she was cruel, didn't want me at the hospital, would barely let me hold the child, etc. My son and his wife were furious. They too had been kept at a distance by the guy. Nonetheless, it was my daughter that allowed all of this! Heartbroken after she said horrible things to me, after three different melt downs, i left. I stayed with my son and daughter in law for a few days, then flew home. My daughter then said I had abandoned her when she needed me! I can't afford to fly back anytime soon and can not understand why she has made such poor choices. She dropped out of college, met this guy, then got pregnant nearly a year and half later. I
m so broken! She was my best friend, she said the same of me. She feels she must stand by this guy and be a couple. Meanwhile I have been kept from my only grandchild.
Spirited Lady numberfiveminusone
She only recently became cruel to me. As a child and young adult I never had troubles with her. But then again we gave her everything she wanted as a child and adult. She just had to say " I want this" and we gave it to her. She always thanked us sweetly. We never had fights or arguments even through the teen years.
Jewel0202
Yes, money seems to be the factor holding many parent/child relationships together. I just do not understand my daughter, cutting me off from her and her baby. I did everything I could. Paid 1000's to help. My son and his wife are thankful and appreciative. They never ask for anything. Maybe we do too much. It becomes expected.
Jewel0202
So sorry this is happening to you. Thoughts and prayers to you as well.
Jewel0202 You need to stop beating yourself up for your daughter's lack of compassion. There's nothing in this story to forgive and your acting like there is contributes to this daughter's false sense of injustice. Your responsibility is to do what you think is right. You made the right choice. Now just stick to that. This daughter is not going to change, so your peace of mind can't depend upon that. You can pray all you want to... and I do believe in prayer... but God works in God's own ways in the world and, sadly, it doesn't usually involve a change of character..
On the other hand, if's possible this daughter is actually asking whether she is loved and whether you would do the same for her. Before writing her off, and instead of defending yourself, give her a lot of assurance that you love her too and that you hope you will be able to be there for her when she really needs you. Identify what's special about her and let her know you appreciate these things about her.
NL Mom First off i want to say how truly sorry i am for what you are going through..i understand your pain as I too am estranged from my adult son who is 20 years old. i agree with your advice about backing off and not contacting them for reconciliation after so many failed attempts. i want to say thank you for your inspiring advice and your strength. I have recently made interaction with my son after 3 years of estrangement, he left home when he was 17 (in bad terms of course) and after 3 years of emails (cause he changed his number so email was the only form of contact) i never got a response. i bumped into him months after he left home only to be ignored in the streets! i was humiliated..i followed him only to be ignored i had no choice but to walk away in distress and shame. he was recently hired as a photographer for a family friends sweet 16 where i attempted once again to make contact. He was formal but still cold. I asked him for his phone number but he declined to give it to me himself because he already gave it to his kid brother my 13 year old son he said if i wanted the number i could get it from his little brother. I contacted him a couple of times via text and calls only to get ignored as usual. He was hired to be a photographer at another event which i knew he would be there so i made it my business to attend. he said hello but referred to me as Brenda not mom. I was hurt and for him to disvalue me in front of other people at an event where everyone knows he is my son was another humiliating moment for me. I addressed him and told him I dislike when he refers to me by my first name then he became defensive stating that i lost that privilege since I kicked him out. when he was 17 his disrespect was at an all time high not coming home doing whatever he wanted, he wouldn't even wish me happy mothers day or happy birthday he even refused to participate in family vacations. i was too hurting at this time since i couldn't understand why my son that I love with all my heart would treat me this way. He didn't even invite me to his High School graduation after i paid for all his senior dues which was my duty as a mother but no gratitude was displayed to me and I was treated as if i was a dead beat mom after years of being a single mother working hard to make sure he needed for nothing. When he was 12 i got into a serious relationship and we are still together to this day. at first he got along with my mate but as he got older is total disregard for my boyfriend also caused friction for us. My mate had also contributed to providing for him we were actually living better then when i was a single mom we were able to vacation several times and financially i was able to provide even more lavish gifts and anything he wanted. I even lavished his girlfriend just so that I can be in good graces with him. after several episodes of the disrespect he displayed i put my foot down and told him if he did not obey the rules of my home he will have to leave. He decided to leave and go stay with my estranged sister of course she took advantage of the situation by taking him in instead of trying to mediate and make things right between us. I have no desire to fix things with my sister as i feel she has done the unthinkable to me building a wedge between my son and i and for that I will never forgive her. I emailed my son the other day to address the issue of calling me by my first name i wrote him a respectable letter displaying all my feeling of hurt and shame. I told him in the letter that I will love nothing more then to reconcile but i will have to be acknowledged as a mother not anything less. he writes back again addressing me by my first name stating that he wishes me many great years and that one day i will have to see what I have done as a mother and he wished me the best of luck. This killed me I called out of work 2 days in a row because i have been crying off and on can't concentrate on anything my heart is completely broken but i will not give in and lose my dignity in the process of trying to have a relationship. I feel that us as parents tend to get stepped on and manipulated just for a relationship with children that don't even appreciate us. I am broken but in time I will heal. Luckily I have a 13 year old son that loves me and my boyfriend of 9 years has been more then supportive throughout this ordeal. i really hope that both are sons come to their senses and see that they are blessed to have mothers whom want to be in their lives and provide love and assistance with life which we both know can be seriously hard. there are many people including me who's mother are deceased and don't have the luxury of spending time with their mothers. I will keep you in my prayers. thank you again for your enlightening advice you are solider with the heart of an angel! god bless you!
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NL Mom,
Thank you for sharing. I'm not sur I can put into words what your post meant to me. I'm very sad but I'm not alone is basically what comes to mind. I'm sorry but I just wish I didn't have this in common with you and others but I'm grateful that the pain of loss seems a little less when I read your's and other's account of estrangement.
My three grown children decided to demand "no contact" by sending me an email after Christmas of 2013. We'd been through a lot in the prior 15 years: the arrest of their dad for a sex crime, the eventual divorce, their acting out as teenagers involving drug & alcohol abuse, an abortion, one getting married, the births of three grand children, the death of one grand child, etc. I don't want to go on. I did my best and I now understand that they somehow put me under a microscope, as it were, where every good thing I did for them becomes minute in the magnification of my mistakes or faults. My oldest has lied to the other two about something terrible I was suppose to have said about my daughter and her deceased son, my sweet grandson. But she has been telling lies to others about me and lying to me for years and even believes that I had something to do with their dad's sexual deviancy.
I, too, was told by a therapist that I needed to send special occasion cards and keep in contact. I did this until now, though everything in me said not to. The little return communication that I received from my younger daughter during this time, was abusive and revealed someone suffering from a mental illness. My therapist suggested that my adult children needed time to grow up and learn to take responsibility for their own decisions and stop blaming me. She maintained that I should keep letting them know that I loved them and would be waiting to hear from them when they are ready.
Since reading the current posts on this website, I have peace about not contacting them anymore. The posts confirmed what I had been thinking a lot about lately, i.e. Not bugging them or being a nuisance, giving them the space they asked for (demanded), hurting myself by waiting on a response and getting nothing, or worse, getting more abusive language.
All this to say, thank you and all others who share the stories of the heartbreak of estrangement by our adult children.
Without my relationship with Almighty God, I would despair. . .
lcjantzi I just got in from shopping, a lonely horrible experience, children are on their hols now and you see them as your children once were, loud and full of life and full of wonderment. How different it once was and how little did i know as to what can happen one day and there is no reason why. I am sorry for your incredible pain, and what you have had to go through. I wish i could put it right for you or at least say - dont worry it will get better - or it will in time go away, but that is not the case because who knows. I like you have my faith, and believe in the power of prayer though i am not a church goer and hate labels so am not calling myself a christian, but i just hope that things become easier eventually. What i would do is write a letter to each and every person in your life with whom things are difficult. Do one every Sunday, as i dont go to church Sunday its when i write my letters. When you have them all, go out one day and post them all together. The content would be - your side of the story, keep it short, and end with - i will always love you if and when you want to contact me, i will be there for you.
You then have said what you wanted to say, perhaps not to the persons face but you have said it. Things unsaid and not put right eat away at you - let them know your version.
And that is all you can do. I wish you well, emotionally, and with tenderness, i know how empty if feels like a deep hollow, almost like a bereavement, a feeling of incredible loss.
Thank you, Lydia, for your compassion and kind words. I'm not sure about doing the letter writing. It sounds good but I seem to have to overcome a large wave of depression after writing to these people. Still, I think it might give me a sense of closure. Thanks for the suggestion and for caring enough to respond to me.
I don't like labels either, Lydia. My husband and I have just found a church but not involved as yet. We meet with several groups to recreate and have neighbors and friends over regularly but my thoughts are never far from my adult children and my young grandchildren.
I was sorry to read your story. You sound like you are dealing with it in healthy ways, though you still have triggers, i.e. seeing children while shopping brings memories. You are still open and pray but realistic. That was helpful to me.
It is a struggle we will continue to have, living with this is gaping hole in our life and the wound that is hard to heal but I'm comforted in knowing that good things can come from our suffering, like this website where those hurting comfort one another.
Yesterday my husband sent an email to our daughter telling her that the CostCo card had been renewed and that our car was available for her to use while we were away for two weeks.
We received a text message written at 3am that stated: ' Please try and respect my request that I do not want any contact as much as it hurts, as I have tried to say it in the kindest and most honest way possible. I know that you do not understand but have done my best to explain it to you. I hope that I do not have to hurt you again with this request. I also am angry that you do not seem to get it. I love you. I want the best for you and mom but am not wanting to be contacted until I am ready I am sorry that this is harsh. I keep feeling so bad. I am also so angry that I have requested this and have tried to explain that I am needing this. I wish you both well. Please let me be as too much happened. I cannot heal ! Please!
My comment to all of you here: We are told and I have read, keep your love flowing through email, cards, messages. We have tried as you can see from the above but she does not want it.
Our hearts are broken. We younger son passed away 9 years ago and our daughter walked out of our life 3years ago. We have lost both our children. We are 'old' and I am afraid I will die with a broken heart.
guest 40
So very sorry that you received that text. It was a very nice thing to offer your daughter your car and pay for the CostCo card. I think it would be best to respect your daughter's wishes on no contact even though that feels like a knife to your heart. Not just for her but for you. You don't need heartbreaking texts at 3am. Take care of yourself.
Lydia Alexandra
I am so sorry this has happened to you. I too feel devastated and grieve the emotional and physical loss of my only child. I have been told I will become numb after awhile. That time cannot come fast enough for me.
Lydia Alexandra numberfiveminusone
Thank you Lydia. I am so sorry that your son was angry that he was called while you were ill. I wish you would not be angry at yourself for your years of giving as that was a loving thing for your to do. We should not be angry that we loved. Please don't feel pathetic regarding your need for care after surgery. There are rehab facilities that will help you get ready to go back home. I hope your surgery is helpful and alleviates some of your physical pain. Take care of yourself.
Lydia Alexandra Spirited Lady numberfiveminusone Madame,Spirited Lady is right. It would be worse if the kids sponge on you in your old age. Just move on and enjoy the good years you have left. It's not worth "dying" over such young people. While you grieve these callous kids could be having so much fun.
I had the good fortune of learning something new today. It seems young adults see estrangement from their parents as a sacrifice! It seems they have to "sacrifice" in order to achieve their brand of success. It seems Steve Jobs "sacrificed" too to arrive at the top of his career. He did not acknowledge a love child before he achieved his spectacular success. What happened to him in the end? He died of cancer. He did not escape the fate of man despite being a phenomenal success in the world of computers and business. I don't see what these young adults are after to the extent of "sacrificing" their parents and families.
Just move on. Live well and be happy.
The Scribe Lydia Alexandra Spirited Lady numberfiveminusone Interesting that we are on three continents having this conversation. What a privilege! I want to add that the Chinese women we worked with in the Chinese village were very close to their parents. Two of the teachers were staying with their parent while taking our classes. We were in both homes, one for dinner. Two others had their mother visiting for a summer vacation. The fifth was the one who took us to her parents' farm to meet her grandmother. Their weddings had been traditional... being taken off to the husband's family home. But the women were very loyal and close to their own families. And that will be very much the case with the one child generation. The young couples will need to take care of two sets of parents.
In the US, most of my friends are very much involved with their children and grandchildren. Many take care of them after school. They definitely celebrate birthdays, Thanksgiving and Christmas together and many other holidays. Grandparents attend performances and athletic events. Even at a distance, my husband's children call him on his birthday, Father's Day, Easter, Thanksgiving and Christmas. And they exchange gifts and cards. Plus there are annual visits, or close to annual... even across the continent.
So that's a lot of why it's so painful for me and my friends who are not blessed with all this. That's why this blog has been a blessing. I'm just grateful that I'm allowed to send cards, notes and gifts. It helps me feel connected and, hopefully, it provides the children with at least a little of the connection which you correctly identify as so important for their emotional health. Plus, I'm hoping it says to my son that the door is still open despite his poor treatment of me, which I'm sure is an embarrassment to him. But given his wife's hostility, he apparently has to choose. And I don't want to be a factor in a divorce.
When we were together at the reunion of my husband's family, which my son is part of because he was only 8 when we were married, he was very relaxed with me and thrilled with all the items from his childhood I brought him. There was something from every stage of his life and he was delighted that I had kept them. Many were t-shirts and he wore them all. He and I spent most of the time following his 3 year old around. I took a lot of videos and photos. But children grow and change fast.
Anyway, I help women in our state prison (most are there because of drugs) express the abuse and abandonment they experienced as children and sort out their lives. The lack of a deep connection to at least one healthy, loving adult is typically the problem. I am working on providing mentors for the women, since, as an ongoing volunteer going into the prison, I'm not allowed an ongoing relationship with the women. But my nonprofit raises money to provide a lay pastor who is in the prison every week. There are 800 women, so we only work with a few, but it's very rewarding... most of the time. And we have other programs as well, which I coordinate. The work keeps me going,.. keeps my mind off my losses.
And every Sunday I light a candle for my son and his babies.
Lydia Alexandra The Scribe Spirited Lady numberfiveminusone The keyword is DETACHMENT. Look at modern housing. Even if the houses share two side walls and the backyard wall neighbours do not interact. The rich live in detached homes,what we call bungalows here (the word bungalow actually originated from India).
Detachment from the community is bad enough but if t's from the family it's very unhealthy but like you I observe this trend among young adults today. It gets alarming when a great number of families suffers from this syndrome.
Lydia Alexandra numberfiveminusone We can only do our best as parents,then pray and hope for the best. Many young adults are like your son. The parents give them the best education and everything they could afford. Once they make it they turn their backs on their old parents. Some daughters are like this too. Once they meet somebody whom they are obsessed with they will simply abandon their parents. All they care about is the man in their life. It's a vicious cycle because the same thing would happen to them when they grow old.
It's happening in the East as well. Today's young Chinese adults have all but forgotten about the concept of filial piety put forth by Confucius/Kung Fu Tzhi. The best is not to expect too much from our children so we won't be too disappointed. How many children you have is no longer relevant. If one child cuts you off the others might follow suit because they think in so doing they can escape wasting time,energy and resources on people who have become a nuisance to them. Parents become old and dependent financially,physically and emotionally.
Many young adults today make use of their parents then leave them to suffer on their own in their old age. This is the reality of the 21st century. Things will get worse in time to come. This is what the world call progress LOL. People become more and more impersonal,unfilial,disloyal and uncaring so just accept and move on. There's no point wasting your life. When they need you they will come back. When they don't need you they will cut you off. It's only parents who love unconditionally. children never do.
Lydia Alexandra numberfiveminusone
Heartbreaking. I m so sorry
@Goldendarnit123
That is a tough situation to be in. It is important to listen to your children and I understand why you have become angry and frustrated with your parents. Good luck in school.
moving on Missmydaughter
Maybe the idea is more along the lines of putting the immediacy and grief to rest - not a funeral, but something kind, gentle and symbolic, to open up the loss, and create acceptance around it, that could then ease the parent toward the ease to let go and move on.
Soi Agree that once an adult--adult child or otherwise--has made it clear he/she does not want a relationship, then as sad as it is for the parents, it is time to shut it down. Giving the person space is an act of love. If a loved one asks for space isn't that an act of love to give that person the requested space? "If there was gross neglect or generalized abuse,the child is within their right to seek to break ties." I am not in agreement with this comment. I do agree that physical abuse, sexual abuse, and certain forms of "emotional abuse" are an appropriate basis for an adult child to cut off his/her relationship with the parent(s). Of the 3 categories, 1 and 2 are fairly objectively based. #3, emotional abuse is very subjective. Reasonable minds might differ on some forms of emotional abuse. What is "gross neglect"? Reasonable minds may differ. What is generalized abuse? Reasonable minds will differ. I agree that EVERY adult child has "the right" to "break ties"---for any reason at all. Doesn't make it "right" (as in ethical, moral, compassionate, empathic, kind, considerate, loving etc). An adult child can do this for any reason at all. In my opinion that is wrong. In my opinion 2 wrongs do not make a right. And in my opinion, there is far, far too much cutting off taking place at this time in our world by adult children, particularly young adults, who have subjectively deemed their parents "too toxic" whatever that may be. There are staggering numbers of parents right now in this world who are estranged from their adult children because the adult child has chosen to cut off the parent for this category of perceived "emotional abuse" and when you peel back the layers, it is just not there, objectively. Nothing more serious than a parent being too strict on the child growing up, having rules the child did not like, and junk like that. These adult children are mostly young adults who are seeking out therapy as they reach adulthood, and are trying, like most everyone does, to come to terms with their childhoods and upbringing and parenting. These young adults encounter inexpensive, inexperienced therapists who seem to be recommending a course of action to young adults to deal with the people in the young adult's life that are "too toxic" for the young adult by cutting off that person. I am not such a fool as to say this approach is never appropriate, but given the numbers by which this is happening, it is equally foolish to believe that in most of these cases, the parent objectively deserves this harsh result. Parents make mistakes. No child's upbringing is perfect. I have yet to meet a parent who set out to be the worst parent ever. ALL parents have kids with hopes of being great parents--100% of the time that is the intent going in. And yet, mistakes occur. Imperfections happen. Children are going to test the boundaries that their parents set. Some children test boundaries more than others. And sometimes this testing becomes a battle of wills, and control issues manifest themselves. And sometimes parents have bad days, are in bad moods, feeling impatient, sick, tired, etc. There are endless variables that contribute to conflict. Are we to say that in 100% of these conflicts, it is ALWAYS the parents "fault" and unless the parent acted with "perfection" (whatever that is) the parent was "emotionally abusive" and hence "too toxic, and hence should be cut out of the young adult's life?
If people don't talk, nothing gets solved. Somebody has to be the bigger person. I suggest these young adults need to reach out to their parents in those instances where the gripe or gripes is nothing more than perceived "emotional abuse" (or as you say "gross neglect"). Take some time to yourself. Get comfortable in your own skin and circle back with your parents and seek peace and love in your family of origin. Those supposedly "toxic" parents changed your diapers. Not just once. Every day.
I have three adult children. Two are not speaking to me. They are children of a very early divorce. i raised them alone, I never remarried. Their Father is a Narcissist who has berated and belittled me for many years. He remarried immediately and had two more children (who seem quite screwed up to me also)...My daughter, I believe is BPD...she cuts me and other people off often. Being with her is like "walking on eggshells" you never know whats coming at you. I've tried to get her help, sat with her for hours on the phone through many panic attacks, picked her up and brought her back home when her boyfriend left her in a different city...the list goes on and on...but quickly she finds any reason she can to cut me off and be angry at me. My older son and I also had a detached, but civil and helpful relationship...I believe he suffers from a mild form of Aspbergers...very very intelligent and successful, just detached. He lives far away, but comes in often and usually found a meal to share with me...but still
spent the majority of his time with his Fathers family. i once asked him why...his response was awesome...he said "its not that I love him more, we just have more in common, like to do the same things, etc.) That was good enough for me. At that point i could handle a come here/ go away relationship with my daughter and an OK one with my older son...and then it happened! I accidentally found out my son had a child out of wedlock (no big deal for me) and i had a grand daughter. I was thrilled! I reached out to my son, and he shut me down. Refused to speak to me about it...ignored my calls, texts and e mails...most of them were just telling him how much I loved him...i later found out that my ex husband had known, although the story my son told everyone about this little girl and her Mother were a lie. After about 2 months, quite accidentally again, I found the Mother on FBook....i was with a friend and he reached out to her....long story short, she contacted me. I responded...Before i responded however, I did write to my son asking one more time if he could talk about this...no response. I decided with the help of a therapist to meet my granddaughter. I flew 4 hours and spent a weekend with her and her Mother. They are both amazing.!!..during my visit both my daughter and my ex husband sent me horrific, vile, demeaning texts telling me that I am no longer welcome in "their family" and that everyone has cut me off for life. One thing and the most important thing I left out is that I do have one other son...he is the only one that is married, a teacher, and him and his wife
are wonderful people and wonderful to me. They told me they are proud of me....my 88 year old Father is proud of me...for reaching out to the granddaughter my son refuses to acknowledge or see (he is court ordered to pay child support, and is) Anyone Thank you for listening...and also today is my Grandaughters Birthday...she's 10...I've only been in her life for a couple of months.
I gained a Granddaughter and lost a child....Everyday I cry for my lost children...but I do feel we are on some sort of path that we sometimes don't realize until way down the line.
I wrote this just as a cathartic way of having my story out there. I wish all of you a less painful day and a Happy Ending!
I get breaking contact with an abusive parent. I have had to break contact with an abusive NPD mother, but I did give her boundaries (which she completely ignores) and went to 3 different therapists with her ( whom she completely ignored) before breaking contact. And I still send her cards and offered to communicate in writing (she won't be abusive in print as it can't be keep secret.) She chooses not to write. I grieve the relationship I never had with my mother.
My own son broke off all contact with me at the badgering of his wife who threatened to take his child away unless he did. Up until that point we were very close and he told me he did not understand why his wife did not like me, as I had been nothing but kind and accepting to her. His wife was threatened by anyone he is close to and saw me as the enemy. She sent me a text once that said 'I am the wife, I will always win." I didn't realize there was a competition. She has forbidden him to go to therapy as well. He wanted to earlier on.
Letting my mother abuse me for years, without enforcing boundaries was a poor role model for my son. Now, he is a co-dependent enabling his wife's poor behavior and becoming a poor role model for his own son. The cycle of abuse continues. And I grieve never having a chance to be grandmother to my grandson.
@Jennifer Smith - My son was groomed by my mother (malignant covert NPD) to disrespect me all of his life, but I thought he was stronger. He was not. I have been scapegoated and gaslighted by my family my entire life. Until i got counseling, I just thought it was me, that I was unlikeable.
My adult son cut off contact with me after marrying a malignant covert narcissist/ bpd who after trapping him with a pregnancy, insisted he cut off contact with me or lose his child. I did nothing but support that girl, a huge mistake
I too have had to go no contact with my family as they all have participated in this disfunctional behavior and now my son is repeating this awful cycle of disfunction. I have listened to Lisa Romano, as well as Richard Grannon. Both have helped me alot, along with therapy. I only wish I had learned more sooner.
Today is my birthday, I'm 54, I emailed my son, the following, I do not expect a response, and that is ok, I'm trying, as a mum,
Dear Sean,
I love you, I miss you, I hope that you are doing well and I will love you always, no matter what, I am so proud to be your mum.
Unfortunately, hurting you, and Sophie, is the biggest mistake and regret, I know simply saying “I’m sorry” isn’t enough. I have no defence, I know my faults. having you, was the happiest moment in my life, i believe (though I know I wasn't a great mum), you know.
Please think of Nan, we are hurting her too, I want my mum to be proud of you and me.
I'm writing this letter, i won't pester you, beg, be emotional, so please understand, my options are limited, as respecting you and Sophie is important to me.
I thought about finding an intermediary, friend or family member to approach you with an olive branch. As you may be receptive hearing from someone else, as my texts are so inadequate, I felt if someone spoke directly to you, no matter the outcome, the intention would be that you'd know I m not giving up. However, I decided against, As you and I don't discuss this with friends or the family. There is no one able to or has the influence to ask you to change your mind except me.
Take more time, I'll agree to any rules, you and Sophie need, please.
Love you
Mum
Sent from my iPad
mollymolly1
Molly I want to thank you for your kind words to me after I posted my story. They were comforting to me. I truly hope things with your son improve soon. You are trying and that is all that you can do. The rest is up to him. God Bless.
I'm copying this as, the advise, helps, my son will not define, my attitude, anger and hurt, which I feel, are damaging me and my wellbeing, I always send him positive cards, an email text, with happy messages, I believe parents need to always forgive, even if no response, it is a good example, to show or teach to a child whose vEry existence is because of us
You might want to consider googling "parental alienation syndrome". There is a world of information available to you to read up on. You may get some insights into what is going on with your kids, and perhaps some answers too, though you may not be comforted much by the answers. Often times, when we know the root causes of a personal problem, the path out of that problem becomes more clear and eventually emerges to us to see and follow. It will be important to understand the root causes of the rift. I will also note that the problem you describe will not be fixed quickly. It will take time, and you need to be patient. I have read and digested much on this subject, and in the process, tossed aside some information that did not resonate with me, while finding other tid bits of information that really resonated with me. One such idea I will share is the idea of focusing on just putting positive energy out towards your kids. If and when you do communicate with your kids, be it a card, a letter, email, voice message, make it loving and positive. "I love you". "I miss you." "I hope that you are doing well", and "I look forward to a time when we can reconnect". "I will love you always, no matter what". " I am so proud to be your mother"...etc. Stay away from "issues"--no good will come from that in the short term. You may have to send out nothing but positive energy for 5 years (or more!), but have hope that those messages are being received, and your love being felt. It is one of those things where if you did it for some incredibly long period of time, without response, you would look back with pride at your choice to handle yourself with class and dignity. No negative energy. You have to accept that no good will come from putting any negative energy in the direction of your kids. As their mom, what they need from you at this point in their lives may just be nothing but pure love!! So give it. And believe that good things will eventually come your way from the positive energy that you put out into the universe. Love yourself!!! That is so importa
I just came across this quote and thought I would pass it along.
Nothing is more debilitating than to care about something
you can't do anything about. And you can't do anything about your adult
children. You can want better for them, and maybe even begin to provide
something for them, but in the long run, you cannot do anything about someone
else's vibration other than hold them in the best light you can, mentally, and
then project that to them. And sometimes, distance makes that much more
possible than being up close to them.
Abraham
So far the meds are helping me control my Daily crying bouts but the heaviness in my chest is still choking.
I have learn along the way that money can divide families, good and bad.
My ex informed my son, Jacob, that he will leave all of his assets to him, to be in charge for all siblings. But just the other day Jacob too disowned me because he sees me as a mere acquaintance. Rudy has always had control of the money and has always wielded it to divide people especially his own family. Just the act of allowing Jacob to oversee monies has caused him to make a choice, if he caters to Rudy he gets money, if he has a good relationship with me then Rudy will delegate management of his funds to the other siblings.
I cannot buy a new car for Jacob, pay for school, insurance or food, money has won another child.
Yes it is painful but in my opinion they are actually hurting each other by this action. I see no point of return.
The memories of my experience with my children were fantastic, I loved being a mother, volunteering at school, swim classes, water polo, and Scouts. I know I did good by them, but scary Rudy, the ex, has always frightened me. We could not even smile in the house or giggle lest he get in a rage. Rudy won the children with promises and gifts of money but they are actually the losers.
chokonoko I too have seen money controlling members in my extended family. Unfortunately the one with the money is divisive and mostly interested in how others can benefit him. Actually, it empowers him if members of the family are divided. I hoped as the "kids" got older (22 & 24 now) they would be able to see through his deception, but I believe they never will at this point.
These adult children show little regard for their grandparents, only speak to them if the grandparents initiate conversation, and never visit them even though they only live one hour away. I am their aunt and attend their special events and give them gifts, but never have received a thank you note. Of course, we cannot do anything for these "kids" except love them and support them which they do not seem to value.
They show their father support, but to their mother and others they show very little regard. These kids are even disrespectful to their boyfriends and girlfriends. What they are missing out on is huge. Things like developing integrity, knowing how to love someone and receive love, and strength of character are missing. As for me, I cannot remain close to a family where such unhealthy dynamics rule. I have had to distance myself for my own sanity and peace of mind. Sadly, this is a lose-lose-lose situation.
This is BS : "you didn’t cause the relationship to be severed; it was not your choice". As an estranged daughter myself, I tend to treat my parents the exact way they treat me.
I'm a daughter of a second wife which my father only visit my mum once a week. When they are together, they will lock themself in the bedroom leaving me alone all my life. My father never pick me up from school, remember my birthday, we never have any family holidays. I register college on my own. I do practically everything on my own. The only support they give is some money. We are not rich, we have just enough.
As for my mum. She come home from work tired, technically she is like a single mom as my dad choose to stay with his first wife. I often ignored at night. There is no family dinner. There is no such thing as dining outside as well. There will be dinner on the dining table, just grab the food and I will have dinner alone in my room or in front of the telly. She will ship me off to my aunt's every school holidays. School holidays is something I never look forward too.
So mum and dad, it is just too bad that I rather be with my own family in my own home rather than your home. I never overnight at their place ever since I got married. Every time they invite me for dinner, I will attend but with a big sigh.
I can't be changed. U made me what I am. We never says we love each other when we are together. I'm have my own family now. My daughter and husband adores me. I'm happy here. They are my real family.
Dear parents, how you treat your child, is the exact way how your child will treat you when they are all grown up. Good luck with your choice.
miss nobody Thank you for giving your response! I too was upset when I first read the passage, "you didn’t cause the relationship to be severed; it was not your choice." What a bunch of crap!
As a daughter with a narcissistic, absent father and an emotionally-detached mother, this is nobody's fault but their's for raising me in such an unloving environment. I'm the product of an abusive relationship. Do not blame the victim.
Jenny93 miss nobody
Jenny I truly feel for you, I can tell you are hurting. Have you ever thought that your Mother perhaps didn't get much love and attention as a child? We cannot give what we don't have. As a mother I cannot imagine a Mother not loving her child. Could it be that she does love and care for you but cannot show it? Please think on this before you throw away something that could be very precious.
I've been on both sides of the fence. I was estranged from my parents for 20 years and now my daughter has become estranged from us. With my parents, as the child, they were controlling and manipulative, my Dad was an alcoholic. I was overwhelmed because nothing was good enough and the demands were more than I could deal with, with a newborn. We finally got back together years later but that caused even more damage between my sister and myself. We never got along, and this made her absolutely venomous that I would return and she might lose control (I later learned she stole everything my parents had leaving them totally dependent on her but because I wasn't in the picture, there was nothing I could do). I never felt my parents totally forgave me but I had to do it to keep my sanity at the time.
Now my daughter, who went to a liberal college is doing the same to me. I've made it a point to not be overbearing and demanding (probably did the complete opposite and was too easy going). She has said she resented that we didn't pay her way through private college - even though we lent her thousands to finish when loans dried up, that she never paid back (and we could ill afford). Tuition was double what we both earned in a year! I feel it was the teachers that pushed an entitled liberal agenda on her and made her turn on her parents because other kids parents in her overpriced school were paying the bills and hers' couldn't. She felt entitled and resented having to take out loans. I don't see why this is our fault, but apparently she feels that's enough reason to dump your family. The real kicker was when I hadn't heard from her for over a year, but she found out that I gave a small gift to her sister (who is always in touch). After that she wouldn't even answer my text messages. She's been selfish, demanding, entitled and somehow it's our fault she's had to get a job and pay her own bills when we decided to move to another city and told her she had to find a place to live if she didn't want to move too. She was 23 and had graduated from college and had a fantastic job. She was angry we wanted to follow our own dreams and weren't going to support her forever. I really don't now how to fix it except wait for her to 'grow up'. I think that may take more than my lifetime and have resigned myself to the fact this may never get fixed, even though it hurts badly. It's been about 5-6 years now with no improvement. I've come to terms with it and was told by a counselor that this kind of thing can be multi-generational. I think she was right.
my first visit to the psychologist went well. Of course it is just my first but I do so want to improve. Correction! No not improve!
But to find out what I can do for myself how to cope with this heartbreak.
I am ready mentally for the long haul and do not see an end to her "Boycott" and mind control of my Son Ethan.
Actually I miss my son more than my daughter even though I do not see my grandchildren.
Many reasons being he had years of difficulty with his high functioning Autism, I never gave up on him, IEP constantly attended. Volunteering as a reader in school, I was his advocate. Getting him into Boy Scouts to build his social skills and experience camping, backpacking in the Sierras a feat where initially he never thought he could do. Most schools make sure that Special Ed students can graduate with a "certificate" but Ethan wanted a real diploma and worked extremely hard even with his learning disabilities, to finally graduate with a real diploma.
The doctor did state to let them know the door is open, an open door policy.
Ethan knows this but my daughter will never relent.
In the past my daughter has had friends, actually best friends, even my grandsons Godmother, and disowned them, never to communicate and make an effort to be friends once again. She cuts them off as if she takes a dump and flushes them down the toilet, out of sight and out of mind.
Her boyfriend takes joy on speaking venom on every person he interacts with and my daughter has joined his mindset to do the same.
Just as an example he was talking horrible "smack" on a overweight woman he met, my daughter was laughing at her, but my daughter is 260 lbs at 5'10".
What does he think of my daughter? His girlfriend and mother of his children.
I seen her in action and felt that maybe I too will be on her hit list. Yes, she did get a bargain rent deal for 10'years but I do not have any extra income to buy her things, to buy my grandchildren extras.
My ex with his 150 thousand dollar income, has paid for her four cars, auto insurance,buys her groceries, any extras, pays for her cell phone etc.
She is fine with her dad, he has always had the money, the power.
Ethan and Jacob have the mind set like me, work and pay for your own bills, do the best for yourself, that any decision you make now is a decision for your family in the future, or if you choose no children that is your choice., but most important be kindly and respectful to oneself and others.
I was never a "Kravitz" mother, never suffocating I just did the best I could.
Estranged from amy daughter after my wife and I went through a rough divorce. I admit two two faults: one I did overly pamper my daughter, paid for her first two years of college, but when she was home she would do nothing. The only thing I asked was for her to take care of her pets needs (2 cats). I tried talking at first, but did start yelling after the rugs, curtains, my tools were soaked in cat urine. TheThe Illinois court system is forcing me to pay a significant portion of the remainder of her degree, also establishing in her mind that she is correct in alienating me.
Have not received a text message, phone call no contact whatsoever, except her signature endorsing checks.
Could use some advice.
moving on Bob the number bear
Thank you for your comments. It is hard for me to not question that I could have done something different. I was not blaming the courts, I just feel that if she was not awarded the remainder of her college costs, she may lose the idea that she is entitled to these payments, no matter her behavior. In short - Illinois courts did make the situation much worse.
Feeling the pain of this for over a year, but your response definitely helped me.
God Bless
chokonoko
Thank you for reaching out, and sharing your experiences
with us. I’m so sorry to hear about the numerous traumas and abuses you
have endured thus far in your life. I hope that things have improved for
you, and that you were able to find supportive people to help you become
safe. If you need help developing a support system, you might try
contacting the http://www.211.org/ at
1-800-273-6222. 211 is a service which connects people to resources in
their local community, such as domestic violence services, sexual violence
agencies, and support groups. I wish you and your family all the best
moving forward. Take care.
This is so much B.S.
I had a father who cheated on my mother, then his 2nd wife....had a child out of wedlock with his 3rd wife...broke my nose when I was 13....and never cared about me until he reached "old age" - - - who is the author, a Jewish shrink probably? Who ever you are, you haven't experienced real pain...just text book....you are just a virgin watching and listening to other people talk about sex....you can't be a pro until you feel...and you sir or madam have not...at the end of a lifetime I still forgave my father....my karma - what ever it may have been in the past lives...I have paid the tab for in this life..and take accountability though I was very very very disappointed in not having a father in my life...but the author here is all wrong....I cut ties with my father for 15 years. He refused to pay for my college though he is a millionaire. He never once visited me in college, never came to my graduation, never came to my wedding....which ended in divorce because my wife cheated on me - - - needless to say I don't trust people....but people - don't take accountability for their actions. I do....I always tell the truth...even when I lie.
There is definitely some sound advice offered in this blog but I cannot agree with the below paragraph which is a major stand out, estranged parents are estranged for a reason & must take responsibility for their role in the estrangement. Do many parents take the "To be seen & not heard" mentality from childhood into adulthood with their children....especially those in the pre 1980's parenting era?
Paragraph: "Shutting a person out is a response to anxiety and fusion. Your actions
or lack of action didn’t cause this. Cutting off is a way people manage
anxiety when they don’t know a better way. The love and caring is there;
the ability to solve differences is not"
Allow me to dissect this paragraph in an adjusted orderly fashion.
"Shutting a person out is a response to anxiety and fusion"....Yes, this is true but what caused the anxiety? And more often than not the adult child was left with no other choice.
"Your actions
or lack of action didn’t cause this".....this generalized statement is wrong, of course the parent/s played a role in the estrangement even with the absence of physical, emotional or sexual abuse.
"The love and caring is there;
the ability to solve differences is not".....Yes, the love & caring
is there & in many cases the ability to solve differences is too but
the parent lacks these qualities therefore no release from the strain
making compromise, discussion & reconciliation impossible.....of
which cutting off is the final outcome.
"Cutting off is a way people manage
anxiety when they don’t know a better way"....Ok..let's just entertain the fact the adult child has tried all the "better ways"....what then? After hitting continuous brick walls, the only final option to escape the pain & emotional damage being inflicted for whatever the reason is to "Cut Off". Those who cut off have to weigh up the lesser personal damage....1/ Stay around for much of the same, cemented in eternal emotional limbo...Versus...2/ Cutting off allowing them to move forward, eventually & I mean e-v-e-n-t-u-a-l-l-y being emotionally stable & healthy....It comes down to what is more liveable hence many choose to deboard the never ending emotional roller coaster....Cutting Off.
Respectfully
AListener So many adult children are so selfish and self-serving these days. To them,the parents brought them into the world so therefore have the obligation to feed,clothe and educate them. They owe nothing to the parents.
I agree with the empathy in communication. These days many adult children seldom talk to their parents and when they do they don't speak with respect or kindness. They cannot accept the smallest advice from the parent,thinking it is criticism. It could end in a misunderstanding with the adult child threatening estrangement.
Yesterday Mother's Day was a long and difficult.
My older dauther died 14 years ago, at the age of 20 from leukemia.My younger estranged herself. She is the student. We, her parents, paying for her study and everything else. We did not see her 2 years. We still want her do finish her Bachelor. We communicate only by email. We don't have her phone#.
I know it would be weird for people that we are supporting her. People who lost child are different.
I have two sons ages 31 and 33. The younger son has had a learning disability for most of his life. He graduated high school after the schools just kept passing him on to the next grade level even though he wasn't capable of the doing the work. He was not retarded, just had a learning disability. Because of his learning disability he has never been able to hold a job for any amount of time. I have had to help him with lots of money because he became homeless and I spent a lot of money trying to keep him from living on the streets. Nothing has worked. I finally had to cut him off financially after years of giving him money that totaled around nineteen thousand dollars over the years.
He is 31 years old now and he has been unable to hold a job for any amount of time since graduating high school when he was 19. He has been in trouble with the law for burglary after he became homeless when he was age 20. He went through the courts and was sentenced to probation and ordered to pay court fines and restitution. He was unable to find any job because he has a felony now. The courts were threatening to put him in prison to satisfy the court fines and restitution. I intervened and asked the judge if I paid his fines and restitution off would they court release him from his probation instead of sending him to prison to satisfy the debt. The judge went along with my proposal.
Because of me cutting him off financially he has told me he "hates me" several times or more over the years. Because of him telling me that I have had very scary dreams where I dreamed he broke into my home and tried to kill myself and his stepmother.
I made the mistake of relaying this dream to his older brother and he told my younger son. The younger son and I had made up somewhat after he and his girlfriend had a child. I was starting to get attached to my new grandson. My older son relayed the dream that I had had to my younger son. This set him off. He said he wants nothing more to do with me or my wife (his stepmother). I told him, "you have told me so many times that you hate me, I can't help that I dreamed you wanted to kill me."
My younger son has now cut me out of his life and is not going to allow me to ever see his new baby which is my youngest grandchild. I am devastated by all of this. I have tried to be the best father I could to both of my sons and this is how I get repaid now that I am 66 years old.
My son lives with his girlfriend who always puts herself first (her words) and does not trust anyone. Most of what I say in a conversation she dissects to see if she can find a hidden meaning! My husband and I at their invitation went to their home to try and get our relationship back on track but my son sat there all afternoon with his head down and hardly said a word while his girlfriend criticised us for all the things we hold dear and are our core values. I had invited them for Christmas dinner and then my husband was sick so I called and said would they mind if I cancelled, she seemed okay with it at the time.
She brought this up and said that I had ask them but then I had changed my mind and I didn't want to see them at Christmas. This was not true, I told them both this and she said well we will give you one more chance but if you cancel again that will be the end. She had in the past took it upon herself to call us Mum and Dad, we didn't like this (her parents are still alive) but stupidly didn't say anything at the time. So at the meeting I told her we would like her to call us by our first names. She did not like this at all and even cried like a baby! More things were said and again stupidly we defended ourselves. We both love our son but feel she is probably a narcissist and has him under her control. We have always been good to her and never said a bad word to her but she looks for things to criticise us in everything we do. She has no friends and has even cut ties with her only sister. We all have to do what she wants or there is trouble Anyway we left their house saying we would meet for lunch in a week or two. When I got home and thought everything through I felt for sure she was a narcissist, I send my son a e mail describing a narcissist but did not name her as being one, but obviously he knew, since then all communication has been cut off. He still speaks to my sister and he told her that he had cut us off because I 'shouldn't throw mud' so she said 'well I think it went both ways didn't it?' He didn't answer but I truly believe his girlfriend has got him convinced everything that has happened is my fault and we are terrible people.
I have send him e mails trying to mend things and have called him and left messages on his phone but all to no avail. He cannot handle conflict, he cannot talk things through so I just have to leave it as is.
There are so many people here in deep pain. It's l heartbreaking that this happens to both parents and children. I myself have sought professional help to try and find a way to deal with this incredibly difficult situation, but I find that talking to others in similar circumstances the most therapeutic. I just wish there were face to face support groups where human interaction takes place and hurting souls might find comfort and support while navigating these turbulent seasons of life. I don't mean groups that sit around and rehash each detail of their lives, compare their gripes and grumbles and never get past the accusations and name calling. But, groups that gather for the sole purpose of finding a connection to others that are seeking a positive way forward through encouragement, uplifting support and yes, a soft shoulder to lean on sometimes.
How do we help make this happen? Is there anyone out there doing this already or participating in this type of group interaction or know of groups that are successfully pursuing help (or at least trying)? Anyone have an idea or suggestion on where to begin?
Forums are great and even email messages from members (when and if that's possible) is a good step, but there's nothing like looking someone in the eyes and saying, "Me too".
God Bless all of you who are hurting. May you find peace and joy.
@Jo Hale When I was with an alcoholic, I found Alanon. This is not just for those living/not living with an alcoholic. What I learned there, so helps me with this estrangement factor now in my life.
Alanon showed me how I had no control over another person's life, weather I loved them or not. The only person I was / am responsible for is myself. The only person I was / am able to judge was / is myself. I am abundantly grateful for Alanon.
I see now that I was an enabler of my estranged daughter's actions. As an overprotective mom, instead of the addiction being 'alcohol' it was 'loss of control over another.' All the mantras of Alanon applied to my life. Yes, they have MEETINGS! These meetings saved my life in so many ways! No matter what the affliction was, -in others around me, I was able to choose how I reacted to each of them.
These meetings were a calming sea in the midst of a hurricane, for me. My pain went away and was replaced with peace. I still need to go to one from time to time, since my daughter has been out of my life these past three years. With some mental gymnastics, as described above, these meetings can be a godsend for you. Hope this helps.
Christableinmourning I am sorry to hear of your plight. Many of the people wandering around these pages are dealing with a real life story of estrangement that involves lengthy time periods of no contact. This is stated not to belittle your personal experience, but to give some context to things. Without question, the fact that what happened to you is recent must be seen as a fact in the the "plus" column for you. I say this because research shows that the longer the estrangement persists, the more difficult it is to overcome. The sooner it can be reconciled, the better.
However, the flip side of this situation is that young people need space, and sometimes they need time. We, all of us, find ourselves in situations where we feel emotionally smothered, and some of us choose to break away from that in clunky, dysfunctional ways (for whatever reason, including our own immaturity). I of course do not know your daughter or her beau, and I cannot know her reasons for bolting but given the planning (including getting friends not to share with you) I see facts that you have shared that point to someone who may have thought that if she did this on the "up and up", her parents would not have approved, would have blocked it or tried to control it in some fashion, etc. She may have felt that she needed to do this liberating move to say "I am an adult now, not your little girl."
Sometimes, the most loving thing we can do for someone we love is to give that person space. After all, if a person only wants a thimble full of love, is it not love to give just that thimble full of love? Allowing someone space can be a profound act of love
I don't imagine at all you were neglectful or abusive. That is clear. I can tell right away you are good parents who, at most, made mistakes within the normal range of parent mistakes that EVERY PARENT MAKES.
My guess is you have not heard the last from your daughter. I will further take a leap and predict one or more of those friends does not approve of what she did, her friends parents are now going to find out, they are not going to approve, they are going to empathize with you, and pressure is going to come on to those friends to come clean and not be "enablers" for your daughter's bad choices. You are going to find out where she lives. This is not a static situation. It is going to change. For sure!
Good luck and best wishes.
I know I wrote more than necessary, but I need to clarify the reason for my feeling of "impending doom" I'd because on "Easter Saturday" we found out that after I kindly expressed my sadness over not being involved in our first grandchild's baby dedication last year they dedicated our 2nd grandchild last month. The silence in the room was deafening. I held myself together to just get home, where I snapped. I had had enough. The next morning I composed an email message thoroughly explaining our feelings and just laid it all out. We of course didn't suggest it was my dil, but that we wanted to sit down and discuss the situation.
Therefore I suspect he will probably reply with a "form letter" stating sorrow that we are hurt, but they don't feel it necessary to adjust their lifestyle or choices and that we need to accept this, period.
So either way the pain goes on. Thanks for reading....
@Jo Hale I am replying as a daughter who has strained relationships
with both parents who are now in their mid-70’s. It breaks my heart reading these posts, but I
thought it may help with the pain you are experiencing by offering a perspective
from a grown child. I think about my
parents all the time. Perhaps your son
does too. I think about what a happy
family we were growing up, how easy it was to be around them, and how much
comfort they used to give me. We never
had any large scale blow-out arguments. I
am in my mid 40’s now, but somewhere in my mid-20’s they developed a slow and
steady current of negativity and criticism toward me. This presents itself in minor statements such
as “I haven’t heard from you in a while” if it has been several days since my
last call, criticizing how I’ve furnished my house, and not eating the food I
cooked for Thanksgiving dinner because it was not one of my Mom’s recipes. They acted hurt when I did not tell them
about my decision to re-paint my house, and my Dad sends emails begging me to
call if he has not heard from me for more than a week. I feel
like they are looking for me to validate their lives, and when I don’t, they
lash out with criticism. My mother
constantly tells me how much her friend’s kids visit and call – with the
unstated comment being that I’m not doing enough for her. When my husband and I got married 15 years
ago, instead of having a bachelor party my husband took his 4 best friends to a
baseball game. My dad still tells me how
hurt he is that he was not invited to the “bachelor party” and my husband didn’t
even invite his own dad. The above
article that states “the love still exists, but the ability to resolve
differences does not” seems very true to me.
Perhaps your son feels the same.
I do love my parents. However,
when I’ve asked them to please stop the negativity against me – they responded
either by 1) saying I’m too sensitive and they have to walk on egg shells
around me, or 2) they will stop the negativity if I change. So the same old routine goes on but over
time, I feel as though these small comments are a punch in my gut. I know they do not think they’ve done
anything wrong – even though I’ve told them exactly what they’ve done. It
would make things better even if they just acted neutral. For example, not mentioning the last time
they talked to me or saw me, just greet me normally. Don’t mention that they didn’t know I made
plans to redecorate last month, instead tell me how great it looks.
GingerMaynor I appreciate your post so much. The negativity is something that as a parent I was not aware of, since my own mother was so negative towards me.
It was hard to see my children in any light that was not sun-laced, living a life I had picked out for them in my mind.
As for me, I turned into a teenager when my daughter and I would have 'words.'
I was mother and father so I think I thought I had to sound like both, sweet and loving, and loud and cold. Obviously, I had no father to model after, so my misinformed childhood led the way. People that don't have the exposure to good people have so little of the right information to mature on. I seem to be always catching up with myself.
You actually asked for the negativity to stop. If only my daughter would have done that. She too has the negativity factor in her, so she would ask me to do things 'her way.' Big difference in topic there! Had I known... .
Communication, since technology arrived, has definitely made this estrangement phenomena seem epidemic in nature. If I knew what being neutral was, I would have made that my objective long ago. The conflict is, for being a parent, 'neutral' meant being run over on the survival highway. I didn't often have the luxury of thinking through every decision I ever made. The price may have cost us our life, -as we knew it.
By the end of high school, my daughter did not want me to ask questions about her life, her friends, her goals and plans. This was before I set her up, rented and furnished her a room, in a very nice house, filled with roommates that attended the college she wanted to go to that fall. She didn't even invite me to her high school graduation.
She cut me out of her life, a while before she left mine, so I was already learning to let go. I thought I was doing it right, helping her get started on her own. I love her so much, I would do anything to keep her dreams going. I didn't know that she didn't see it that way.
So you see, real communication is the key. My problem was, I had the wrong door! My key never fit. Still looking for it, but only part time now. For now, I am learning patience. It's working.
What happened to me, well, I've called it the 'switch.' In our late teens, a switch is thrown. For me, the person I raised for all those years was suddenly GONE! Maybe it's because of what I consider it to be, the pre-programmed 'Independent Gene.' I remember doing this similar thing to my parents at the same age. It was called, "Out on your own." I wonder if we were really so abrupt about it, even now. Thank you so much for your perspective!
Thank you, Ginger for taking the time to respond to my post. I am truly sorry that you deal with these painful issues as well and my heart hurts for you. I appreciate your wanting to share with me a different perspective in the hope it might help me see things from his point of view, but what is happening to you is not happening in our situation.
The last time I ever mentioned to him that we don't hear from him or spend any time with him was 3 years ago. He got upset and perturbed and told me he had priorities in his life and not enough time for us. He suggested I make more friends or get a hobby. He said he felt like I had made him my whole life and didn't know how to let go. I sat there quietly listening and told him I wouldn't bring the subject up again. Mind you we weren't asking him to contact us every day or even every week. I'd call him about twice a month and say we'd like to know how you're doing. He usually didn't return our calls. We'd go months without seeing them. I didn't then and still don't believe we were asking too much of him. But we were never given the opportunity to work out any differences, nor asked how we feel.
So after that discussion, whenever we did see or hear from them our conversations were always pleasant and respectful. We never criticized them or even made sutbtle remarks. We extended grace towards them both over and over again while ignoring the deep pain that was growing in our hearts. We honored his wishes and lived with the boundary lines he drew, but the lines just kept getting thicker. Their actions and/or lack of actions were becoming blatantly insensitive. How much pain are we supposed to tolerate without asking for a reason or just letting them know it was hurtful?
I can truly sympathize with your situation and how difficult it must be for you. It's never easy to know how to deal with insensitive, self-centered, immature, and in your situation controlling people. We do our best to understand and empathize and accept. You being in a place where you find you've run out of options in dealing with your parents and their controlling behavior towards you and you're left with possible estrangement. We too are trying to live with their insensative behavior, but it's not controlling like your situation, it's outright cold. We also run the risk of being estranged from our grandchildren. So where do we draw the line? We've done what they asked us to do, but their attitude towards us has become intolerable.
Again, I do appreciate your wanting me to understand and see things from the other perspective. I try to believe he still cares for us. I hope he does. I do think as the article above states, that he doesn't/didn't know how to make the transition from our son to adult and married. We would have appreciated the chance to have some input. I am hoping he might one day see that our relationship can be a happy and healthy and balanced one. I hope you find that as well.
I'm just now reading the comments posted below by Susan Neson just an hour ago and with a few exceptions our stories are so similar. We have not yet been "cut out" of our son's life, but I fear the time is coming. We too raised our son, (our only child) in a loving, respectful and godly home. He married our dil 5 1/2 years ago after dating for 3 years. We began to notice once they were married that we heard less and less from him as time passed. I'm talking about every 6 weeks or so. They live about 20 minutes away with her parents living a few miles from us. We first split holidays into here first for a few hours and them leaving to spend the remaining part of the holiday with her parents. Then they decided they wanted to celebrate on a different day. Of course when I suggested alternating so it would be fair to all that never happened and now they are with her family every holiday and we get the day before or after with us making all the arrangements. So my husband and I celebrate alone. We have no other family with the exception of my mother who lives 11 hours away.
I tried approaching the subject (with my son) of us being a bit more involved in their lives 3 years ago. He got perturbed and basically told me he had priorities in his life and he just had no time and I needed to make friends or find a hobby.
Along came 2 grandchildren in 2 years. My opportunity to spend time with them is about twice a month for a few hours with my dil and I sitting in their living room. I have offered to babysit, take them outside, or have them at our home occasionally and there's always a new excuse for this not happening. It's gotten to the point where my husband doesn't want to go anymore because he feels like it's just a "Social Services Visitation" in a contained room with complete supervision and oversight.
My son has grown very cold and superficial towards us and we feel like our 6 visits per year (as a whole family) are like us being distant cousins that are stopping by to just catch up. They never initiate getting together, include us in special events (him speaking at his church, my grandchildren's baby dedication, graduation ceremony for his masters) or just call to say "hello". This year we received text messages on our birthdays.
I am, as the woman who also just posted, grieving terribly. It is so hard to understand why this is happening. We have not had any problems or arguments or even an uncomfortable moment. We have been extremely gracious to them both, our beliefs expect that from us and although it was hard at first, we did what was "right" hoping things might change. We have done everything they've requested of us. I feel like my son no longer exists, but it's worse because he does and chooses to treat us this way. The rejection is heartbreaking.
I am in therapy and I'm learning to accept that my son has a "flaw" (which is his inability to address and deal with this issue). I do believe my dil (who is really a lovely woman) just doesn't want to change her preferences. Which relates to the comment that there is an epidemic of ultra-sensitive, (basically spoiled) immature adults. Yes, there is a transitional process that happens when children become adults and then when they marry and it's tricky, but if my son (and dil) really understood and felt the pain that occurs when loved ones choose to do what they want instead of thinking of others, they might make better choices.
I wish there were support groups for this type of issue. I've considered going to the ones offered to those that have lost their loved ones to death, but they don't allow this. It's almost worse than a death because they are alive and CHOOSING this. It's rejection from your child for something that you didn't do and it's awful
Thank you, Susan for your comforting response. I missed it the other day. I agree with you wholeheartedly about if we had been a bit more insightful maybe we could have been the "adult" and addressed this issue sooner. We overlooked so much to keep him happy and should have taught him more about honoring his parents. We did though raise him to follow the Lord and just believed he would learn to treat us better when he matured. He's gone to seminary and teaches bible to middle schoolers at a private Christian school. All this doesn't seem to mean anything because he just "missed it". My therapist said early on I needed to see him in a different light. He has a flaw and if it were someone else we'd accept it or deal with it if necessary, but because it's our (only) child we let things go. Although the thing that's hardest to understand is that he wasn't this insensitive until he married. I'm not blaming her and I have gone out of my way to show her love and respect, but I think she just never matured much either and didn't make any effort to try and fit me into her/their lives.
I did find out just recently after receiving his response from a letter we sent him where we were almost pleading for answers that he blames me for things that have caused him to distance himself from us. I wasn't a good role model when it came to family traditions and connections. I was a hypocrite because I wanted to be close to him and his family but not my husband's family. And the zinger was the one and only argument we ever had in 25 years when he told me he was inviting his father to his wedding. He saw his father about 3 or 4 times in almost 12 years with no other contact. It was the only request I made and in hindsight I was wrong, but it wasn't that. It was my hostile response that caused him to no longer desire a real and open relationship with me. He was wounded. This was 6 years ago and after a sincere apology from me. I never knew. He harbored unforgiveness and just kept me chasing after something that he had no plans to offer me. As everyone else here I was devastated. This was a week ago and the pain in my heart just aches.
He says he plans on keeping us in his life and wants to move forward. I sent a simple reply apologizing for everything that hurt him and asked if he would consider meeting to try and restore our relationship. I firmly believe his increasingly harsh treatment towards me was guilt because I was doing everything he asked and extended grace consistently. The ball is in his court because he knows that reconciliation is the core to our beliefs. Love forgives, always. So we shall see. I am not expecting anything. I am trying to find my way to acceptance and a life that brings me some form of joy. The hardest part is finding a new vision for my latter years. I never expected this, never. With only one child it makes it even more difficult.
I'm sorry for going on so long. It helps sometimes to share your pain with others who understand. I just wish there was a way for all of us to get together and extend a hand or a shoulder or a big hug. Are you allowed to share your location? Just a state maybe? I don't completely know the rules. If not that's fine. I will remember you in my prayers and yes I know of the women you mentioned. Jennifer Rothschild is a good one too. Thanks again Susan and may the comfort He offers be more than enough!
amandars comment is spot on. this is a really good and positive article for a change without bashing anyone and bashing moms and dads and how to deal with estrangement in a positive way. people are humans and will make mistakes. you are going to get abused somehow growing up. it's just how it goes. no one has a perfect family.
right on!
CindyAZ
I can hear how painful this separation from your daughter is
for you. Know that you are not alone. There are people you can turn to when the
situation seems almost too much to bear. I encourage you to look into possible
community supports for estranged parents. The 211 Helpline would be able to
give you information on resources like parents support groups, counselors, and other supports.
You can reach the Helpline 24 hours a day by calling 1-800-273-6222 or by going
online to http://www.211.org/. You might also find
support from our online community in the comments section on our article https://www.empoweringparents.com/blog/estranged-from-adult-child-parent-child-estrangement/. Good luck to you
moving forward. Take care.
mastik8 AListener ChildOfAbuse Respect. It runs both ways. There is something utterly disrespectful about an adult child's choice to cut off contact with the parent (s) and simultaneously declining to explain. You seem to be of a mind that it is supposed to show the parent how the child was confused over the parenting process of feeling neglected or disciplined. Here is what I will observe about all that. Parenting is complex, far more so that kids realize when they are just kids. Parenting very often involves split second decisions (like every day!), and those are not going to always be correct. There is no singular book or manual on "how to raise kids". Many parents go by a "feel" or how they were raised (imperfectly in many cases). All the while, KIDS TEST. It is a fundamental part of being a child that we "test". Kids test boundaries. It is part of growing up. And yes, parents make mistakes. We have bad days. Bad moods. We get rushed at times. We have flaws--all of us--including character flaws. There is no such thing as a perfect parent or a perfect childhood. Every parent is going to make multiple mistakes in the course of executing the process of raising a child and trying to be a good parent. In addition, every leadership position involves criticism from the people you are leading. Show me a "leader" who's subordinates all believe he or she is doing a perfect job of leading, and I will show you someone who is not a very good leader. We will both be pointing to the same person. Simply put, if you are doing a good job of being a parent, you are going to piss off your kids now and then. Not on purpose (hopefully!), but because the parent is setting boundaries, standards, and because kids test!
Against this backdrop, I get that every child emerging from childhood has some level of issues with the parenting he/she received. There are bumps and imperfections in every childhood. I get that for many kids maybe they did not understand this or that about the childhood. Understood. What I do not understand about all that is the passive aggressive choice to cut off contact with the parent as some sort of retaliatory punishment for perceived shortcomings in the parenting process. And to your point that the adult child believes he/she has made his/her reasons clear to the parents, what I will observe there is that I can imagine that is true in some cases. Some. I would venture a guess that in the vast majority of the cases, the adult child has declined to share and that is consistent with what I have heard from many, many parents. These late middle aged, well educated, highly evolved parents are not clueless idiots. We are talking about a large sector of estranged parents who are absolutely mystified at the adult child's choices and the adult child's utter refusal to communicate. Furthermore, that makes some logical sense to me, as the subject of "why" is so emotionally difficult that many choose the way out to just say nothing. As a personal value, I believe that choice of silence is both emotionally insensitive/inhumane, and a coward's way out. That said, I am sure there are isolated situations where the adult child has made his/her reasons crystal clear, and the parents have declined to "hear" or understand.
I am a 44 year old woman who decided to cut my Mom out of my life. I love her dearly, but she has done some very vindictive things to me. At 38, she didn't like the guy I was dating, so she called up my employer and told him untruths about me. My employer fired me. I was shocked that my employer believed everything she said. My Mom also called my boyfriend's Mom, saying nasty things about me to her. Thank God, my boyfriend's Mom defended me and told my Mom to not call her again. Toxic parents never really see their adult children as grown and capable of making their own decisions. She wanted me to lose my job, at that time, so I would supposedly "need" her to survive. She does not have GOD in her life. She is very judgemental about me and others. She rarely has anything nice to say. I have a brain tumor and am on disability. I need to keep my stress level at a minimum. I will not tolerate my Mom's disrespectful attitude. I moved several hours away from her. I finally have a drama free life. If a friend treated me as badly as my Mom has treated me, they wouldn't be a friend of mine anymore. I don't trust my Mom at all. She has stabbed me in the back too many times. Even though my Mom is not a part of my life, she is in my prayers.
I told my Mom since I love and respect myself, I have to protect myself from her harmful behavior. Apologizing is not in my Mom's vocabulary. She always tries to justify her outrageous behavior.
Spirited Lady LoriCichocki
SadDad61 Me too its worse than a death. I don't know what to do . I am tired of praying. Surly this is not gods will. I raised him, worked 3rd shift so I could be alone with him during the day and not take him to someone to be with him during his wake hours. he slept at my moms home, then I would get him. did that for 12 years. then was a full stay home mom. its not like hes been neglected. I don't know what to do and even if I went to get help all I could do is cry...it would be so embarrassing.
I too have found my self cut out of the lives of my 13 and 15 year old daughters. And it is the most painful heartbreak I have ever had. I read somewhere that its similar to the loss of a child. They are still here but I cant see them or feel them....
I have been divorced for 6 years and their bitter angry father has not helped the situation. It shouldn't be like this. Yes we are divorced and our problems are/were our problems, not our childrens. I don't know where I went wrong. Why I lost their love and loyalty. I thought I am their mother that should count for something. Their father does nothing to encourage my relationship with them but instead allows them to make the decision to not see me or have me involved in their life. I raised them myself for the first 12 years of their life, their dad was gone most of the time for work. I was a stay at home mom and thought I was doing a good job. I don't have a close relationship with my own mother so vowed I would do things different and now I find myself in the same boat. I blame myself for everything. I tell myself they must be in so much pain to cut me off, but they seem ok. I want a relationship with them so bad, this is not how I pictured things. I'm cut out of school activities , homecomings, boyfriends, personal achievements etc.
I don't know what to do. I feel at a loss. Do I continue to make efforts only to be hurt? Do I continue to give? Sometimes I want to but then other times it hurts to bad and anger sets in and I don't want to. But at the end of the day I love them and miss them.
I feel so much damage has been done. Because when I did see them if they disrespected me I felt like I wasn't allowed to be their mother. If I said anything then I had to worry about making them mad and then not seeing me again. I try to talk to them but it just pisses them off. I don't know if its because of the age or what. I cry, I plead I ask them to talk to me, but feel it falls on deaf ears and they could care less. Like they just don't want to deal with it. Its hard to carry on like nothing is wrong. I feel betrayed and sorry to say but my trust in them is gone. ANYTHING I say or do gets back to their dad and twisted into something ugly.
LOST AND HEARTBROKEN
I’m a 45 year old woman who has been estranged from her mother for 2.5 years. The ultimate reason was that I brought some of my negative feelings about our relationship to her attention. She partially listened, partially made up lies to cover her negligence, gave a faux-pology, and told me that if I wasn’t willing to bury it all and sweep it under the rug then I shouldn’t bother contacting her….she “didn’t need my negativity.”
Her actions and lack of action totally caused this. Funny how I grew up hearing “You can come to us for anything,” but Heaven forbid I go to her about a problem between the two of us. I’ve reached out a couple of times since then, but she has no interest in honest communication and problem solving. I have no interest in a sham of a relationship.
mastik8 greenstockings What you have taken the time to write here is extraordinary, on multiple levels. If you are, as you say, nearing 60, then you were raised in the 60's when spankings were a "normal" part of parenting. That went out as "acceptable" quite some time ago. Today, spankings are akin to child abuse. Funny, another thing that was around for kids raised in the 60's was "honor thy father and mother." That went away too. It makes you realize, times have really changed. You would think less spankings mean less estrangement. But parent/adult child estrangement is on the rise. I reason that it has more to do with the cultural shift in the parenting process that occurred during the 60's and early 70's, where the notion of 'honor thy father and mother' evaporated into a "kids centered" focus.
When I read your story, I think your parents must have suffered from severe personality disorders, likely borderline personalities. Obviously, I don't know, but it sounds like it. If you were able to grow up and not become afflicted with this same disorder, your choice to "raise yourself" would prove to really be a sort of life saver that allowed you to have a normal life.
I think your story is unique. I don't think most folks who are estranged from their parents are carrying even similar stories. The said, I am always an advocate for the adult child re-establishing healthy contact with the parents in a way that the adult child feels is appropriate. It sounds like you did this, though continued to experience frustration with your parents difficult personalities. I commend you for finding a path--even if bumpy at times--that has allowed you to at least have some level of contact with your parents. That right there is the sign of an emotionally healthy and mature person.
I just want to add that I am in no way trying to diminish the experiences of people who have been estranged for reasons unknown. I understand the pain and confusion that causes. I'm just saying that there are two sides to every story. My mother probably tells everyone how awful I've treated her, when all I've done is demand that my boundaries be respected and that she be truthful. She wasn't a horrible mother, but both of my parents neglected my emotional needs and failed to protect me when I needed it. That created a distrust on my part, and a distancing from them, both geographical and emotional. In trying to explain that, my mother twisted it into "You're blaming me for everything bad that ever happened to you." That's not the case; she just won't listen. The more I tried to explain, the worse things got.
In my case, she was never the mother I needed and she lives thousands of miles away from me. Not having her in my life doesn't really affect me that much, but it's still sad to think your mother could wash her hands of you so easily.
I also have a daughter of 38 who rejected me and forbid me to see my grandchildren. In all these conversations I read very little about the rights of the grandchildren yo have a meanngingful relationship with the grandparent. I might not have been the perfect mother, but after apologizing, not interfering in my daughters marriage of any decisions regarding the children, ugly incidents still happended since she got married, have been walking on eggshells for years. I understand she is very angry, her father being an alcoholic, I got divorced when she was 6 years old, but she refuses councelling, hubby fuelling the anger because of his own issues. After the last incident (over a the repayment of a loan made by me to daughter and hubby) contact has been severed after and ugly argument with the grandchildren present - the parents insisted on this, I foolishly believed we can resolve the problem calmly and respectfully. I do blame myself for exposing my grandchildren to this and made a decision that it will never, never happen again in my presence. I will love them forever (not sure about the mother) but have to let them go to live their lives in their family unit without me. I compiled a file with various documentation and will probably write letters to them at various stages which will be made available to them should they be interested at age 25, as well as a testamentary trus should I die.
But no more doormat, apologizing, begging because THAT is the model that I have became to my daughter and son in law and I refuse that my grandchildren see me in that role. Someone said: without respect their cannot be love, as their parents do not respect me, they certainly will not either.
I have also been thinking about the general concept of loving your child unconditionally - it is true for a young dependent child or even young adult, but it is certainly a myth to love an adult child whom you showered with love, care, education unconditionally (perhaps I must use the word 'boundaries). .
Still struggling to come to terms with this.
my son is also accommodating his partner and we now don't see him or the grandkids any more, his partner hates his sister and is unbalanced and jealous
the pain this has caused us is not describable, we also love our son who is a very good human being and wish h and his family well, but have to live the latter part of our lives with the pain of our loss
Loneparent Pat yourself on the back for making a LOT of headway in working through these COMPLEX issues. Children have an innate sense of what's fair. Your grandchildren may see through all this. And you may have contact with them well before 25. The important thing is that they will find a grandma who has gone on with her life in a meaningful way and is doing well, who can be a role model to them. I like your idea about letters they will read later.
Your love for your daughter, and through her to your grandchildren, is what makes all this SO PAINFUL. You can, as you suggest, love and still build that protective wall to avoid being used, hurt and humiliated. Recognizing the validity of conflicting feelings is a lot of what is involved with resolution.
You're doing well. Be at peace.
I'm so emotional having read this. it's sad to know that people are suffering and a little relieving to know it isn't just me. My daughter committed an act of total violence against me. And I kept wondering what did I do to her. Single parent, one child (who is in her mid 20s). I wanted to give her a life I didn't have as a kid. Sacrificed, scraped, took any job was on welfare but, went on to have a good career (put in tons of hours), tried to compensate by giving as much as I could. Not too indulgent, she didn't get everything but, it was a pretty decent amount. Just wanted her to have a good life. Worked to make sure she was a good citizen, did charity work but, was traveled and cultured. I let no one hurt her so, almost no dating. Then I finally met someone. She was 20 and in college and she didn't like him. He didn't like her too much either. But, everyone kept it civil. My husband grit his teeth and offered to bring her (and her boyfriend) with us when we went to do anything from going to the market to going to a concert.
Then she got pregnant we offered to provide some help (not bunches, we cannot afford a lot).
But, we were like any excited parents when a child is just starting between gifts and loans. Then all hell broke loose. All the hatred she harbored against my husband and me just burst out of her. He brushed by her when he walked in front of her. We went on a vacation and my daughter allowed a brush passed her to become a scream of bloody murder. As retaliation/retribution upon our return, she had some men assault my husband. It was captured on surveillance video. They destroyed the building property, keyed my car. The police watched the video and she was promptly arrested.
No apologies. Instead, I cannot see her baby. She writes little snide posts about me on Facebook. And she's making me hate her.
I am waffling between sadness and extreme rage. Between where did I go wrong and who the hell does she think she is. I didn't raise her to be violent! I didn't raise her to be so hateful! And then I think I am enlighten when I realize -- good riddance, this is really what she felt. I was nothing more than a freaking doormat, wallet and she's probably mad because she wanted to have this baby and move back in and thinks she would have been able to if I didn't get married. And how my getting married has ruined her whole gravy train.
FIRST & FOREMOST,
Thanks for opening up a fairly widespread and important issue and giving parents guidance and empowering them.
I come from the background of an ancient culture which thrives inspite of the ravages of time. This means our elders had seen EVERYTHING, and have found what works for ALL and built the findings into our lifestyle.
That doesn't mean these and other problems in life do not prop up in our lives, only, we seem to have been given the guidance to manage them and come out ahead of them, should we heed the guidance in that wisdom.
1. LOVE: a very simple, fulfilling, comforting, emotion. Puzzle is why so many of us are not experiencing it and always in search of it?
Do we even love ourselves completely, acceptingly and supportively? May be even if we face 'unloving tyrants,' we can first learn to love ourselves, which will then make it easier for us to love and accept others. My heart goes out to those caught by fate into unloving entrapments, even in their formative years, and I pray for a spark to hit them to educate them of this fact, through a caring, good teacher, friend or a good person or pet. There has to be an initial experience of it. Then it should be held onto, steadfast, to get all the benefits that accrue from it, mainly contentment.
2. Very young children should be loved and taught boundaries lovingly and persistently. Respect should be gained by showing it to them, their feelings at least to the extent of acknowledging even when not agreeing or validating them, and then guidance given on how to channel that frustration properly. In order to do that the parent must first be a mature adult, brought up in a caring and fostering environment aiming to create good, well adjusted human beings.
3. If a child has grown to your shoulder, treat him as you would a close friend for whom you have love, care a lot about but do respect as a person whose input should be respected and honored as much as possible.
4. What is the need to 'empower' the entity that is already in the position of power as 'the parent?'
Perhaps they feel powerless now because they abused the privilege of being privy to their ward's emotions and wishes and instead of guiding them in properly achieving them with the help, support and guidance of the power in them as parents, they felt threatened or challenged and crushed en mass everything?!
5. To the children who are now adults by age, do realize your inner growth and perception and your parents' may not have kept up with your physical growth and maturity, but they need to.
You must truly accept your guardians as flawed as they are to be able to first get along and communicate with them and then perhaps even to forgive and love,
GingerMaynor I think you are right about parents. Being a parent of 2 adult children I guess I do believe that I am entitled to occupy a certain space in their adult lives. My children made a lot of mistakes growing up and some were hurtful but my love for them is unconditional and no matter what they say or do that will never changed. Is it flawed to expect your children to have that same unconditional love, that unbreakable bond? As adult parents we make mistakes, say the wrong thing – a lot. We are also changing constantly. Aging mothers going through menopause and becoming basically crazy but to no fault of their own. We are facing empty nest where we are no longer defined by being a parent and have to redefine and find ourselves again. Also, you Mom and Dad have always had their children to unite them but when your gone we look at each other and say “now what?” I am not saying your wrong, your not! I’m not saying their wrong, their not! What I’m saying is that maybe taking a step back and putting yourself in their shoes might help you understand their behavior more? Also, it sounds like you, your husband and your parents need to go to lunch one day and talk respectfully about what you need from them to be happy and listen to what they need from you to be happy. Both talking respectfully you should be able to come to an agreement of mutual respect and happiness? Good luck!
GingerMaynor Spirited Lady Hi Ginger. Pat yourself on the back for standing up to your dad. You set your boundary and, after another attempt, he stopped and hung up. He's not accustomed to boundaries, so he was flustered and hung up. That's fine. When setting ones boundaries it really doesn't matter how the other reacts. The important thing is to maintain the boundary. But that doesn't mean you should throw out the relationship. The purpose of boundaries is to facilitate a positive, healthy relationship. You're making progress.
Very likely you will get a call from someone else in the family to take his side. You need to be prepared for this and simply tell them. "I love you all, but I feel you are unfairly critical of me and I'm not going to listen to that any more. If you want a relationship with me you will have to be respectful."
Again, they will not know how to cope with that. So you just stand your ground and say, "I'm not going to discuss this any more. I'm setting this boundary and if you want a relationship with me you will need to respect it." They may hang up. If not, you can hang up.
It may take a matter of months for them to come around, but I'm sure they will come to terms with this eventually... maybe quickly. If they call and act like nothing has happened, that's good. It's going to be a long time before they apologize, if ever. But all you're asking is that they stop the unfair behavior. That's your condition and you're sticking to it.
Each time they relapse and start in again, you'll go through the same procedure. It will be easier each time. You'll just say, "You know, I'm not listening to this." They'll back off. Once they make the decision to change, it's just a matter of reminding them that the boundary is still there.
You're doing well.
Spirited Lady GingerMaynor This - SET BOUNDARY.
Children brought up in permissive homes do not understand boundary because they had never been set any. They must know they can't overstep the boundary that has been set. Good one,Spirited Lady.
This was a good article, sometimes distance is the best thing for two people to stand back and look at themselves and how they continue to contribute to the dysfunctional relationship. Of course, when parents have a very close and healthy relationship with their grandchildren, it will hurt them having to be cut off from thier grandparents.
I've read a lot of the comments on this site, if an adult child wants to literally break up with you, then its thier choice. Yes, it hurts but you have to take care of yourselves and make the best of your life. The worst thing is to drive yourself to bad health and get cheated of the other beautiful things God blessed you with.
For the adult children that grew up in broken homes, it would take a lot to reunite with thier parents and those parents would need to apologize and truly treat thier daughter or son with upmost respect. For the parents that did your best, we're not abusive, then give yourself a break and just live your life. Do volunteer work to help children who would love and appreciate the maternal qualities you have and surround yourself with people who appreciate you with no strings attached (money, or material gain),
Life's too short, I just lost my mom recently and wish I would have spent more time with her. She did her best, my childhood would have justified estrangement and I couldn't use the past for how I lived or felt in the present. I chose to have her in my life, it was my choice and was adult enough to just keep space when needed. In the end I knew she always loved me and I loved her, which is what life is about.
Circle of life, you don't know until you become a parent on how challenging it is to raise one, you don't know how tough it is have adult child until you become one. Now I see what she did and hope mine comes around. But if she decides to never do that, it will be painful but just knowing that makes her happy I will have to accept that, move on and just love her from afar. Grandkids will grow up and remember us.
Acer Xpress Agree with everything you say with one small exception--you suggest that if your daughter remains estranged from you, you will be able to accept it, "knowing it makes her happy". It is hard for me to believe that anyone who has chosen to estrange themselves from a parent is "happy" as I understand that word and that emotional feeling. Estrangement is pain--pain for the person making the choice to be estranged, and pain for the person who has been pushed away. I suppose there are rare situations when estrangement could lead to a level of greater happiness, but my best guess is that every person making the choice to be estranged has a big hole in his or her life, has unresolved anger issues, is struggling to find the power of forgiveness for past pains suffered, and similar emotional feelings. Add to that, the person that makes the choice to be estranged also periodically encounters the sights and experiences of loving parent child relationships, and that would likely trigger those feelings of a gaping void in that person's life.
It is the nature of our beings that we have relationships with our parents. Humans are family oriented. We were all born wired a certain way. Part of that wiring is that we gravitate towards relationships, and in particular, family relationships. We are not lone wolves. Therefore, I reason that most estrangement is equally painful for both parties, and allows conflict to languish in an unresolved state, and that most of the time, no one benefits from estrangement.
I don't believe estranged parents are left in the dark.
I believe they choose to be there because it's easier to play the victim than to own up to all the ways they've wronged their kids -- whether they were intentional or not. And it's easier to repeat the same patterns instead of meeting your kids' emotional and psychological needs. (Don't give me a blanket apology for 25 years of BS and then keep doing more of the same the next 5.) Successful relationships involve two-way effort and mutual compromise, and some parents don't feel they owe this to their kids, at least not in the same way they'd owe to a suitor or a friend.
I also think many parents expect their kids to defer to them and give their feelings greater consideration by default, simply because they are the authority figure in the relationship. And when this doesn't happen, they find hand-holding articles like this one to validate their failings (and feelings).
I'm not saying every kid who cuts off their parent is right; I'm just saying it shouldn't be so easy for parents to dismiss the decisions of those who do as narcissistic, disrespectful, immature, or whatever other nonsense makes them feel better -- and appears above.
There are many of us who've put our parent's needs and feelings before our own for an entire lifetime, only to have them cry "foul" when the relationship is no longer on their terms once we grow a backbone, or seek outside help from a qualified professional who helps us know better.
Adrianne Knight It is clear from your writing that you are estranged from your parents and that is rooted in feeling wronged by your parents. I do not question your feelings in any way. I accept that you have been wronged and I do not judge your choice. I will say, however, that sweeping statements like "I don't believe estranged parents are left in the dark" is likely overbroad.
Certainly there must be many parents that know, or should know, what is up, the "why's", the "what for's" and so on. But certainly there must also be parents that are utterly in the dark, who cannot understand--for whatever reason (including their own lack of intellect), who are not playing the "victim card" as you suggest, who are not evolved enough psychologically to see themselves as their kids do, and do not have the capacity to look within themselves and see their shortcomings as a parent and/or as a human being.
We are flawed beings, all of us, and some more than others.
I fully embrace boundaries--emotional and physical--as a way to bridge estrangement within the nuclear family. I would even agree that there are some very severe situations that call for an extreme boundary of ZERO relationship, due to the abusive qualities of the parent child relationship. However, subject to those "qualifiers" it seems to me that for the most part, estrangement is generally not the answer to much of the things you address. In effect, estrangement becomes, along the lines you outline, giving more life to a state of dysfunction.
I would suggest the better path is to continue to love, be kind, and compassionate--in a mature way. Express love. Feel love. Feel compassion. Even if from a physical distance. Establish your own mature identity as an adult human being. Being confident in that person comes from loving yourself, accepting yourself, and accepting your family, your upbringing, the flawed parenting you were subjected to, and so on. Let the dysfunction that existed in your upbringing die with you. Don't give it further life or energy. Estrangement is a hurtful thing...
Do not concern yourself with parent excuses for being estranged, or whether a parent is wrong to place blame upon the child. People use blame every day to avoid taking responsibility, and that has been a normal human coping mechanism, quite literally, forever. And it always will be. You can't stop it, and your parents are not the only ones that do it (kids do it too!!). But!! Just beneath the surface of those protestations of innocence, and the placing of blame, if you listen close enough, you will hear the guilt. Because blame is a often a mask.
There is a better, stronger path than estrangement. That is the path you want. It is full of love, compassion and kindness--all empowering personal qualities that will make you rich in self confidence. I promise.
AListener Adrianne Knight Thanks for your thoughtful response.
To use your words, "as an adult human being" with my own family, the idea of estrangement was especially difficult. In the end, however, it has proved the most emotionally sound--I finally know something akin to peace. Sometimes you have to put your own well-being first, even when you've been taught that love and compassion require the exact opposite. But where is the love for oneself? Are we not entitled to the right to protect and compassionately treat ourselves?
I was so conflicted (and guilt-ridden) over feeling the need to stop talking to my mother that it prompted me to see several counselors and finally a therapist. No one says estrangement has to or should last forever, and those aren't my intentions. But I'm old enough to know when someone isn't ready (or capable) of meeting me halfway, or when I'm being taken advantage of. Frankly, I don't need that in my life, and I shouldn't have to parent my parent.
I disagree that estrangement furthers dysfunction. I believe it *can*, but I don't believe by virtue that it does. Just like a married couple who agrees to separate, I believe space can give people the chance to reflect on what's most important and evaluate if the relationship is worth saving. And some people, no matter how hard you love them and put in the effort to make things to work, will always be toxic, inconsiderate, unyielding dead weight who care about your needs the way they care about invisible money.
To your final statement, I say I already am rich in self confidence. It takes self-respect and confidence to realize you owe yourself the same consideration you give to others. For the first time in my life, I'm putting my needs first.
Grace, what you have written here is right on target. It is so difficult to make peace over something that makes no sense. In my situation I believe my dil just prefers to have her family in their lives and my son cannot/will not address leaving us out. We are not technically estranged, but he only calls us when he needs help from my husband with a "handyman" problem. We only see them (they live 25 minutes away) as a family about 6 times a year, basically each of our birthdays, Thanksgiving and Christmas. Both holidays are celebrated the day before or after because they spend the holiday with her family. Her family lives 4 miles from us.
I visit with my two grandbabies about twice a month for about two hours always in their living room. There is always a reason or excuse why sitting for them, taking them outside, or heaven forbid come to our house wouldn't work. I just dread what the future holds as they get older and they question why her parents are fully engaged with them, but Grandma and Papa are never around.
We raised our son in a loving, generous and Godly home. My head can wrap around the fact that he loves her and doesn't want to upset the apple cart, but my heart is broken. We don't ask for much just a call sometimes to say hello or include us in some special occasion, like my grandbaby's dedication in church. He's grown so distant and cold. It's just not the son I once knew.
Yes, we parents who deal with estranged children do need comfort and support. My therapist told me the two most powerful words of validation are "Me Too". I have lost my child. He may not be deceased, but sometimes knowing he's alive and choosing to live apart from me is just as painful. Rejection with no known reason is heartbreaking. I hope your heart heals one day or better yet, your son finds the grace to reconcile with you.
@SatoriBleu Unfortunately there is nothing you can do. I’m in the same situation with my daughter. I’ve apologized and her response is that there is not one thing that I have done and no apology is necessary. Her words “you’ve changed and we’ve grown apart. simple”. Followed by “I don’t want or need you in my life”. My daughter was my best friend up until a few months ago and all of a sudden this happens. What I have had to do is take solis in the fact that I raised an independent self sufficient women and she will be just fine without me. Someday she will turn around and need her Mom and she will be back. For now all I can do is focus on my life and being happy. Please – do the same! Be happy in spite of your children! Also – if you need someone to talk to please reach out. I would be more than happy to share my email. Kind of like when we were kids and had a pen pal ?
I want to see articles on Parents of their Adult offspring respecting their Adult offspring who are over 30 single and childless.
It's amazing how there are many articles on adult offspring needing to respect their adult parents but there's not a lot of the opposite and I feel that this is drastically missing in the world of psychology because there are many parents of adult offspring who do not respect their adult offspring because they did not achieve the parents idea of success. And that is where I'm having a personal problem.
Thank you for this article. I quoted you in my own article about this painful parenting situation. http://www.realmomlife.com/my-child-is-estranged/
Your insight has helped me tremendously.
Christine Field
I think this article could have been much better by not using Joe's situation as your example. I am someone considering distancing myself from my mother and father for various psychological reasons. My father is just a drunk and someone who is stuck in such bad ways that he does not see the good in the world nor does he help himself. He blows money on alcohol and cigarettes and doesn't put the money where it should go. My mother, on the other hand, will tell me how worthless he is and then, since I recently was forced to move back home, will tell me I should only be something in the medical field or something she deems worthy. She has contributed to my rent and car payments in the past, and now holds that over me in a "haven't I been good to you?!" kind of way. Before I moved back home, I was able to face my own problems and was happy.. now that I am back, I feel as every step I take is never good enough and that I will fail. I am deeply depressed and hardly leave my childhood room (and am judged even when I do.) Then my mother argues that I am not doing anything for myself- but how can I when I can't do what I feel comfortable doing? No matter where I go, there is a wall of judgement and shame. I am fearful to be myself.
These are usually the parents people estrange. Please don't summarize a person as you did Joe. Joe could be like me- and he is- but on the inside he may be suffering from verbal and psychological abuse. He may have anxiety and depression, feelings of worthlessness. Parents harassing him is like being kicked when he is down. I do not know if you meant it like this but the article didn't feel as if you did. It was too simple for something that deserves a psychological analysis.
UnicornRides There needs to be a blog for adult children on how to handle troublesome parents. And I suspect all parents are troublesome part of the time or in some ways. And sometimes the problems become overwhelming. I hope you will get out of that room and get back to being who you really are. We all go through situations of job loss and periods of depression and inertia, and having an alcoholic father has definitely complicated your situation and thinking. My father was alcoholic, so I'm familiar with the syndrome. But it sounds like you're ready to find your strength and set your own course... sounds like you're fed up with your inertia.
Counseling made a huge difference for me,t if you can find something you can afford, but Al Anon was also helpful... and reading up on family dysfunction. You need to set your boundaries, set your goals and gain some inertia. Volunteering at a food band or thrift store could be a way to start gaining some momentum.
It seems like it would be helpful for both you and your mother if you wrote her a letter. Tell her you appreciate what she has done for you. Tell her you're grateful that she has allowed you to come into her home. Ask her what you can do to be more helpful around the house. Look for ways to help and to express your gratitude. Not all parents are willing to allow their adult children to come home to live with them.
But tell her you need some space to explore what kind of career will work for you. You know she cares and would like to influence you, but this is something you have to do for yourself. Ask her to please not make comments about your life. And tell her that when she slips up and does it you're going to just give her a look and walk away, because there need to be boundaries between you.
That's what family dysfunction is all about. And boundaries are the cure. But you're probably going to need help with this. it's not easy to change lifelong family patterns that go back generations. You might also ask your mother to go to counseling with you. She definitely needs help to change her patterns and a good therapist can help the two of you work this out. You might explain to her that this is the way she can help you the most.
My prayers are with you. This is a very spiritual journey and turning to a higher power for help will make a difference.
I am in the midst of a 4th generation of child-parental "estrangement". My mother who was an only child cut-off her parents, then me. (She cut me off because I started to see my father after 16 years of being estranged from him) After a few years of therapy, I made piece with the situation between my mother and me. I was the caretaker of my grandmother in her final years of life and we were very close. When my mother died I was only aware of her death because another relative contacted me. She did however, have her attorney send me a notice that I was not included in her will.
I am now on my 22 & 24 year olds list to cutoff. My 24 year old is a degreed social worker, with a full time job who lives with her father. My 22 year old is on his 5th year of college with one more to go. When my son comes home from college he too stays with his dad. I don't ask much from them, however I do occasionally need help with a few things around the house. (Carrying heavy things, changing light bulbs that are too high, etc.)
This past summer my son quit his paid internship job early to go to Lollapalooza. He told me in May that was his intent and I told him he needed to stay and finish the job. My ex agreed with me by text, only I found out my son had done just that. When he finally called to tell me he was home, I asked when he got back. After some hemming and hawing, I found out he had been home a week and went to the concert for the weekend. His sister knew all about it and when I asked her if she had heard from my son a few days before he called she said no. This is the third time something like this has happened.
While I understand my kids don't "owe" me anything, I am so hurt that while I'm expected to pay for college, my son's car insurance, license, lunches, dinners, entertainment on my birthday, mother's day and Christmas, help find jobs for them and their friends, they can continue to lie about what's going on.
Although I am under court order to help pay for my son's college for the next 1 1/2, I have finally had enough. I don't want to talk to either one of them. When my daughter asked why I was upset, even refusing to meet my son's new girlfriend, I told her I'm exhausted from working to help put them both through school, working 60 hours a week to make all ends meet, only to have been lied to time and time again. She stormed out of the room telling me that I felt I was "entitled". It's my money and yes, I do fell I'm entitled because it's my money and I have to work for it. Maybe when she has to start paying for rent she'll get it.
So I guess my question is at what point is it ok to just give when you feel like you are just being used. My daughter never owns up to any mistakes and then says the most hurtful things. My son can never text me when I send care packages, just to let me know he got them. He is going to school 1000 miles away and will probably take a job out west after college.
I know in my heart I've raised them to be decent people, however they just aren't decent to me. And I'm at the point that it is not ok anymore to treat me badly and lie to me.
@Barbara
I’m sorry to hear about the
recent struggles your family is going through. It sounds very difficult
for you. Life changes, even positive ones like new marriages and starting
a family, are times of transition and stress. Navigating the transition
as a family from childhood relationships to adult relationships is a rocky time
for many. One place to start may be to step out of the position of being
in the middle between your adult daughters. Despite who may have said or
done what, it can help for you to have your own separate relationship with each
of your daughters. Sometimes focusing on their lives and their interests
instead of trying to mend the relationship between them can be helpful.
This also helps you from appearing to take any sides in the ongoing
argument. I can hear how much you’d like to help the two of them work
things out. The truth is, the relationship that your daughters have with
each other is something for them to work out themselves. You only have
control over your own relationship with your daughters. As for what to
say to your daughter in a letter, it is most important that it come from you
and that it sounds like your own words. As Dr. Joan shares in this
article, getting support for yourself and reaching out to listen with an open
heart goes a long way. Something as simple as “I’m thinking about you and
I miss you.” can be
a great start. Good luck to you and your family. We hope you are
able to find some peace as you move forward.
Something that really bothers me about this site's articles is how frequently abuse is ignored or dismissed with one sentence when it truely is such a major cause of why kids and especially teens have behavior problems or why adult children have problems with their parents.
I've seen this multiple times now - especially in articles about teens running away - when the authors blame kids for problems and give abusive parents excuses as to why their child is the problem.
I ran away twice when I was 15 and 16 because I just didn't know what to do to get out the constant emotional abuse. My father and stepmother constantly told everyone what a terrible kid I was and I feed into to by becoming a troubled teen because I had a problem i couldn't solve - I was being abused and every moment I was at home my life was a living hell.
Too often parents don't realize the abuse they are inflicting on their kids, especially emotional and verbal abuse. Maybe that's how they were raised and they don't think there's anything wrong with it. How many parents convicted of child abuse will ever admit anything they did was wrong?
On the "When Parents Hurt" forum on Joshua Coleman's site (he's the author of a book on parental estrangement of the same name), the forum gets shut down ever few months because a war breaks out between estranged parents and adult kids estranged from their parents over what is or isn't abuse, what is or isn't a valid reason to be estranged and stupidity like "honor thy mother and father" means forgiving your parents for horrendous abuse.
I acted out a lot when I was a teen and I went through hell due to the abuse I suffered. My stepmother won't acknowledge she did anything wrong. She thinks she's a great mother. She would read the advice on this site and fall for it hook, line and sinker that she wasn't the problem - I was and the abuse would continue.
I've been trying to find parenting advice to help me with my kids because I had such horrible role-models and my mother died when I was 10. I keep stumbling onto this site, but no more. Any site that can be so dismissive of child abuse and ignore the realities of the reasons kids act out is not something I want advice from. You're just going to keep the cycle of abuse going and people like my stepmother aren't going to realize they are doing anything wrong.
I
Totally agree with your many good points. Before the 1950's people believed that children's emotional lives were irrelevant, and the only thing that mattered was food, clothing and shelter. Since then, research has shown otherwise, but for many parents they haven't gotten that lesson. There are many people who do not recognize emotional abuse as abuse. Many do not even recognize physical abuse as abuse, especially when the perpetrator is a sibling.
Lindsay Gibson has a couple of fabulous books that you will probably find helpful for understanding how you grew up and your coping style. Other books that I'd recommend would be anything that helps you learn about your child's unique personality and temperament (such as: Understanding Your Child's Temperament) because all children are so different. There is not a one-size fits all way to parent. So much depends on what is right for you and for your child.
If you want a good laugh while also learning about what NOT to do as a parent, the book "How To Traumatize Your Children: 7 proven steps" is a great one. Actually every single parent on this site should read this one because you can learning about what not to do while also laughing about it since we've all done the wrong thing as parents plenty of times.
When you've had a rough childhood and you have kids of your own, the big trap for all of us is going too far in the other direction. For example, if you had a neglectful parent, you may tend to become a hovering parent. If you had a controlling parent, you maybe tend to be too permissive. It's actually much better not to try to be the parent you wished you had, but rather to be the parents that your kids need now. So learning about the personalities and temperaments that your kids have will help guide you toward the kind of parenting that they really need.
In the end, we all just want to be the kind of parent that our kid needs.
Hope that helps!
spaceyfacey,
I am on both sides of pain also. I'm a older middle aged mom who was estranged on and off, from my parents, my father sexually and emotionally abused me. I spent too much time trying to repair the relationship with my mom and I yelled and was angry at my kids a lot. I had a hard marriage while trying to raise the first 2 kids,, it was overwhelming to say the least. I'm still married and we have worked on our marriage. My daughter who is 28 moved across the country and will not call or text. I am shut out too,,, she feels like a victim cause we yelled and their was a lot of anger and disfunction too. Life isn't fair,,, most of the time it is the abused and most hurt people who end up more brokenhearted rejected and left. I'm sure because it cycles through generations, but it seems so unfair when you know as a parent you just yelled and were angry a lot,,,but you didn't abuse with words or other trauma as sexual. and most of us protect our kids from abuse or bad marriages, or stay in bad marriages for the kids like I did, and still get left by our grown kids. Its heartbreaking. and sickening. All I can say is just throw her a text now and then and hope and pray for a response. Sometimes I get one. She had left her senior year to live with her boyfriends family, and we were estranged way back then,,, all I got from praying was Embrace who you have..... I guess that's all we can do,, to embrace those who want to be with us.
@Angry and Estranged
We appreciate your writing in and sharing your perspective
with us. I would like to assure you that
abuse is something we take seriously. As James Lehman stated so often, “There
is no excuse for abuse.” This is true regardless of who may be the abuser. As
he points out in his article The Bullying Parent: Why Aggressive Parenting Doesn’t Work,
aggressive parenting “leads to serious problems for those children and how they
will grow up to deal with the adult world.” EmpoweringParents.com does not
condone or support any sort of aggressive or abusive parenting. Our goal is to
help parents develop more effective ways of addressing their child’s acting out
behavior. A big part of being an effective parent is role modeling appropriate
ways of handling anger and frustration. From our perspective, the reason most
kids act out or make poor choices is a lack of problem solving or coping
skills. Holding a child accountable for his/her choices is not the same as
blaming a child. Blame, whether directed at the child or the parent, does
little to change a situation and can often keep people stuck in ineffective
patterns of interaction. Blame doesn’t solve problems and neither does shame,
as Rebecca Wolfenden points out in her article http://www.empoweringparents.com/blog/effective-parenting/effective-discipline-why-shaming-your-child-wont-work/. I am sorry you suffered at
the hands of your parents. No child should have to endure such distress. I’m
glad you are reaching out to find ways of parenting your own children more
effectively. You might also consider looking into local resources, such as
parent support groups or parenting classes being offered in your area. The 211
Helpline would be able to give you information on these and other supports. You
can reach the Helpline 24 hours a day by calling 1-800-273-6222. We wish you
and your children the best of luck going forward. Take care.
@Angry and Estranged
Your comments are really important for parents to hear. The first thing parents need to do is apologize to their adult children who are estranged from them.
And I know you're right that most refuse to do so.
I have apologized for things that happened and didn't happen that I think I could have done better. I've expressed sympathy for things my son suffered that I had no control over. And I've offered to listen, to go to counseling with him and to pay for counseling for him and/or his wife. I think my apologies have made a difference. At this point we have limited electronic contact and I send gifts. My son has told me to stay in the present and not talk about the past. But I send photos and toys from his childhood and he loves that.
My mother and I never talked about her abuse of me, but as I forgave her and she stopped drinking we had a more loving relationship. She decided she liked me the week she turned 88 (gifts, cards and taking her on a short trip and out for lovely meals did the trick). Fortunately, she lived to be 96, so we had time to create happy memories together. But we also had some fun times before that. She was inconsistent.
Your experience was a different degree from mine and my son's. But in any case, for you to be the parent you want to be, you have to let go of your anger toward your father and step-mother. For better or worse, they probably did, as you suggest, the best they knew how. No one helped them see what they were doing. Or at least, no one got through to them. Their self-image is threatened by the idea that they could have parented in a different way.
I"m unclear why you would come to this site for insights on parenting. Empowering Parents has great advice on nearly every topic imaginable. I wish every parent read it.
Sadly, I think the tension between my mother and me was a factor in my son's feelings toward me. I'm concerned that the anger and hurt you feel may be affecting your parenting. It seems to be a preoccupation, which is understandable.
You don't have to keep defending yourself or explaining yourself or doubting yourself. You have a right to a happy, healthy life... whether they think so or not. You are not defined by them. They don't even get a say. You are the beautiful person God made you to be.
Please talk to that beautiful, abused child that is inside you and tell her that they can't hurt her any more. Tell her you are an adult now and you can take care of her. Listen to her pain and comfort her tears... including the death of her mother. And then start giving her the love and happy appreciation she deserved. "It's never too late to have a happy childhood."
Blessings on your work to find healing and joy in your life so you can give it to your own children.
@Guest
What an upsetting situation. I can
only imagine how difficult the last few years have been for you and your
husband. It’s understandable you would be concerned about what might happen if
your husband again has contact with his children. Unfortunately, we are limited
in the advice we would be able to offer in this situation due to the legal
issues involved. It would probably be in your and your husband’s best interest
to consult legal counsel for guidance around how to respond if your step
children ask to visit. If you do not currently have legal counsel, the 211
Helpline would be able to give you information for legal services in your area.
You can reach the Helpline by calling 1-800-273-6222. You can also visit them
online at http://www.211.org/. We
appreciate you writing in and sharing your story. The best of luck to you and
your husband moving forward. Take care.
@Guest
We appreciate you writing in with your question. All of the
comments on EmpoweringParents.com are moderated before being posted. There are
certain times when a comment is not published due to the content. Comments that
describe current legal issues, alleged abuse, continued suicidal threats, or
contain language of a religious or political nature, are not published. If the
person posting the comment has specific questions, a private response will be
posted, as was the case with your comment. Because your question centered
around legal issues involving visitation and alleged sexual abuse, we were not
able to publish your comment. It would be in your
and your husband’s best interest to consult with legal counsel for guidance
around your stepchildren possibly wanting to re-establish visitation. We
appreciate you being part of the EmpoweringParents.com community. Good luck to
you and your family moving forward.
"Shutting a person out is a response to anxiety and fusion. Your actions
or lack of action didn’t cause this. Cutting off is a way people manage
anxiety when they don’t know a better way. The love and caring is there;
the ability to solve differences is not."
Hi, just happen to stumble on this article, and could not keep myself from posting... I am an "estranged" parent of two of my five children..
Your statement I have quoted above? This is a "fact"? Something you "know" to be the "cause" of adult children "estranging"?
The "dance" the "pressure" oh poor poor little fellow... all the "stress" he was under... Did you ever consider? Well, how is it that the poor fellow, with no job... had somewhere to go? Where was that by the way? Is there free housing and food out there for those who "feel" stress? I was not aware of? Life IS something these "kids" need to "feel"! and learn from. And little "stessed" out, unmotivated kids.... Poor little things. I really don't feel like my job as a parent or a "fellow" citizen needs to keep making "excuses" for the "poor little girls and gals" out there. Nor do I find sweeping articles like this very helpful to parents as myself who have found there worlds torn to shreds by a "generation" of "pity party" excused "punks" who get away with this sort of "outragious" behaviour, while parents and families are left with all this "advice" and the kids are left to "behave" any way they want tooo... and everyone just works their tails off to be so "understanding" of why the poor little things are so "stressed"
They need to "grow up" !!
@mom I appreciate your bringing forth another facet of this issue. My son has his own business. He and his wife purchased a modest home and they seem to be doing modestly well. He had published two books by the time he was 30 and seems to be well respected in his field. I know, however, that they both suffer from some depression disorder and distancing from their families is part of how they choose to handle their stress. It seems to be a pattern they learned from her family. But it's also how my son sometimes chose to express his resentments. My husband says my son will live to regret how he treats me. I'm sure he will eventually work through his issues, but probably not for a few more years. I choose to be patient and at the same time supportive, since he doesn't ask anything of me except to give him distance from me. They are not part of a drug culture.
But to your point, yes, they have grown up in a culture that encourages this kind of individualism where it's everyone for themselves, whatever feels good,... why pay taxes to help others or even build community infrastructure when I can do better for myself? It'as all about me!
Thinking adults eventually figure out that it's not really all about me. We need relationships: family, community, country. We need roads and food inspection and a bazillion other things.
I appreciate the woman who wrote about the biblical commandment to "honor your father and your mother that your days may be long upon the earth." My son was taught this.in a home with little judgment of others and high expectations of service. I rest on the promise in Proverbs 22:6, "Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it." I'm just waiting for him to be old and work through the issues he's running away from.
This article is pure garbage. Adult children become estranged from
their parents as a coping mechanism to avoid suffering continued abuse.
Nor do I want my father and especially my stepmother any where near my
children. I need to protect them from being emotional and
psychologically abused like I was.
Most parents of estranged kids are in denial about what caused the
estrangement. I know mine certainly are. They think they were so
perfect and I am so flawed and want to hurt them. They won't acknowledge any of the pain they caused me nor the fact I grew up in an abusive home.
Too
often you see this stupid clique of the perfect mother being estranged
from the lazy or drug addicted adult child who they won't give money
too.
I'm a professional with a master's degree in engineering, married with two kids. I
also have suffered severe anxiety due to years and years of extreme
criticism and nonstop put-downs and bashing by my stepmother which she
would always say to my dad, "is that's true?" and he would nod. He's
been bullied by her just as badly as me, but he won't leave her so what
else can I do? He supports her and allowed her to emotionally abuse me for years without standing up for me once..
The
reality is most kids are estranged because when faced with a
relationship that causes you nothing but pain and agony, you end it.
That's true whether you are dealing with a romantic relationship or one
with a parent.
The truth is I hope they feel bad, because of how badly they have hurt me.
At
least by cutting them out of my live, I'm able to move on and heal.
With them continuing to be in my life, I would continue to suffer.
@Angry and Estranged In your case, you have definitely made the right choice. And I'm sure you're right about many, many cases of estrangement... maybe most. I volunteer in a women's prison and hear the women's stories of abuse. And, because they've been on drugs, their children have also been abused, or watched abuse. But that's not every case. And the issues can be much more subtle if the adult child is sensitive. Sometimes the issues were mostly outside the home and the child still wants to flee from those memories. Or the spouse insists on the separation. Sometimes an early death in the family was involved. it can be complicated.
But I think you're right that abuse in the household (or sometimes favoritism) is probably the most common cause of estrangement. But letting go of your anger and resentment is a gift you can give yourself, since they obviously got away with it and may or may not care. Better to write them off than carry the hurt. You get to choose your feelings about them.
Sometimes going back and listening to their absurd statements and thinking can help you take some of the power out of your unhappy memories. You couldn't really stand up to them then (it didn't help even if you did), but you can stand up to them now as an adult and calmly tell them how hurt you were by their abuse. They don't need to agree or apologize, but the child in you will know you're now an adult and can stand up to abuse. That will take away much of the pain and give you freedom from the hurt they caused.
Tarquin Hamilton
We appreciate you reaching out to Empowering Parents for help
with your situation. When parents and adult children become estranged, it can be difficult for everyone involved. I’m
glad to hear you are looking for some support around the issues you are facing.
The 211 Helpline would be able to give you information on resources in your
community, such as support groups, counselors and other types of supports. You
can reach the Helpline 24 Hours a day by calling 1-800-273-6222. You can also
visit them online at http://www.211.org/.
We wish you the best of luck moving forward. Take care.
Hello. I'm writing because of a situation that my husband and I are having with his mom. My husband and his mom have cut each other off--both sides--within the past couple of years.
We have only been married for two and a half years and each of us have been married once before and each of us have two sons, so without external issues, we have enough of our own to deal with. My youngest stepson was bullying my kids at school and at home for months all starting when we went on our honeymoon and my mother-in-law stayed with my stepson while we were gone. Anyway, it's caused huge issues with my MIL because she doesn't believe that my stepson would ever do that kind of thing and I guess he told her things about me and my sons that, no matter what anyone says, she believes. This has caused quite the rift between my husband and his mom because no matter what my husband says, she just shrugs it off and takes to heart as truth everything that my stepson says.
She says that I'm not allowing her to get to know my kids and then in the next sentence, she calls them mamas boys. She accused me of bullying her grandson while his dad was at work; she says that I need to treat her grandsons with respect (which makes sense--where's my respect?); she says that one day they might love us like family; that I need to stay out of the issues that the boys have with each other and not get involved...all of these things she said to me over a span of three days. And then, when I choose to cool off instead of screaming at people, she says that I go off pouting.
She also has hated her husband's family for the last 40 or so years because they tried to give her advice about raising her kids--she doesn't talk to them. She has no friends because at some point they have all given her reason to write them out of her life. She was so mean to her 2nd son when he was growing up that he doesn't talk to her and he didn't invite either of his parents to his wedding--he wanted to invite his dad, but didn't think it would be right to just invite one of them. Her own husband says that she's not a very nice person and that she'd rather be a hermit. She is mean to my kids for the holidays and their birthdays--they don't get anything from my in-laws--which at this point I would probably send back anything that she sent to them--I know that seems rude but when they get $10 in a Christmas card that just says "Gram and Gramps" or (which was underlined in the card) and then it had their names, and then they see their stepbrother who has been nothing but mean to them get hundreds of dollars worth of toys and electronics and personalized shoes, what does that tell them? I let the issues between the boys go for almost an entire school year, so how bad of a mom do you think I feel about that?
I still go buy holiday cards and remind my husband of her birthday every year, but nothing matters. I texted her for her birthday and said that I hope she is doing well--of course I wasn't expecting a response, so I wasn't surprised when I didn't get one.
I am a horrible person and so are my kids. That's how she makes the three of us feel. My kids know that she doesn't like them and that pisses me off. She has made my husband feel like he's a bad father and that pisses me off too. Should they be in contact? Maybe, maybe not.
If anyone has any suggestions or anything, please let me know. I just needed to vent because I've been thinking about her all day and I'm not sure why.
@Sad and discouraged
I heard a talk radio show (popular female Psychiatrist_Dr. First Name). I'm uncertain I can mention her name here and want to be able to reference as the subject addresses your situation directly. The Do's and Don'ts of Stepparenting.The main point was: A stepparent doesn't just marry a spouse; they marry their spouse's entire situation. In so doing, they become a professional egg shell walker. The goal line is to find a balance between supporting and defending without overstepping visible and invisible boundaries. As for making nice with your MIL? Step back enough to get your boundaries in place. The ten dollar gift to your child versus her grandchild? Perhaps you could ask that special treatment be given on his birthday and Christmas to be divided equally among the children. That's her grandchild and she's loved him and grown with him since day 1. Are you demanding that she immediately treat your son the same? Dismiss any rejection your son may feel, but accept he's been acknowledged and make the point that she just doesn't know how special he is yet. Could you pick out his new best friend for him at school and demand your son to have fun with him when he'd rather be elsewhere? Even a ten dollar gift is to be appreciated. Have him write a thank you note. Presentation and delivery is important, which is why I wouldn't allow such disparity between the kids at Christmas as it is a family shared event. Birthdays or special days between Grandma and Grandson only? That's a relationship that has bonded in the heart. Your love doesn't represent hers. Dictating to her would stir resentment. Give her freedom for her love to grow. You can offset the balance with special days for your son.Respect comes first, then comes like, then comes love. If your stepson plays sports and you're always there cheering him on and he rebuffs you, for example? Tell him, "I love coming to your games, but I don't like being ignored or being treated disrespectfully. So I'm not going to come anymore until you ask me to come." He may say, "No sweat." Then let it be. One of these days, he may just look over his shoulder and say, "Are you going to be there?" That's the moment when you know you're on your way to being friends. When your relationship with your stepsons improve, and you've learned to identify and navigate the visible and invisible lines ---- Grandma will come around. Only do what you would do for another because you want to, not to score points. Do it with genuine heart and without expectation --- or hope. Place all energies on your husband. You two are the most important people that can foster an environment of responsibility and respect. Don't fret. Watch the lines. Play down the drama. Respect and demand respect in return --- politely. This is a tough job. It has been said, "Oftentimes, folks are so eager to step in and step up as stepparents that they don't step back and appreciate the giant staircase they are about to climb. Which is why their "blended families" can feel more like a perpetual trip through the blender than a happy, healthy, Brady Bunch smoothie."
Be strong of good courage. I wish you the best.
@Sad and discouraged
It sounds like you have had a difficult time
with your mother-in-law, and her treatment of you and your sons over the past
few years. We appreciate you writing in for support. I recognize
how difficult this situation must be for everyone in your family. As
frustrating as it is, you ultimately cannot control your mother-in-law’s
actions, or the way that she treats you and your family. What you can
control is yourself, and your own actions. As Debbie describes in another
article, http://www.empoweringparents.com/grandparents-and-parents-disagreeing-11-tips-for-both-of-you.php,
one of the most effective things you can do in this type of situation is to
clearly define your boundaries, and to communicate those to your
mother-in-law. How she chooses to respond to those boundaries is up to
her. It’s also important to make sure that you are taking care of
yourself during this stressful time. Self-care, while frequently
overlooked, is an important part of being an effective parent. Your
self-care plan can be anything you wish: take a walk, call a supportive friend,
or even using more structured supports such as a counselor or support
group. For information on available resources in your area, try calling
the http://www.211.org/ at
1-800-273-6222. I understand how trying this situation must be, and I
wish you and your family all the best as you continue to move forward.
Take care.
@Sad and discouraged
I'm sorry to hear this sad story. Your mother-in-law is obviously a very unhappy person determined to make others unhappy as well. My advice is: don't let her make you unhappy and discouraged. Don't give her that power. You don't have any control over her behavior but you do control how you think about it, which determines how you feel about it. If your boys see you write off her treatment of everyone with a wave of your hand and a roll of your eyes, they'll see it for what it's worth. Don't let her win. And stop doing anything in her regard. You owe her nothing and her relationship with her son and his boys is not your business. Let it go.
I think for my son I am a reminder of his very difficult childhood, which involved being mixed race in a white community, intellectually gifted and unwilling to "dumb down," artistic in an athletic-oriented society, his father's early death, divorce, and the list goes on. He's also counter-cultural whereas, to him, my husband and I seem very conventional. I'm really proud of his achievements, and accepting of his lifestyle, but he's probably not sure of that.
I was full of anguish and self-blame (he blamed me, but the accusations didn't even make sense, so i know it was something deeper), but I eventually found peace about it as his own life stabilized and he seemed happy. I know he loves me and i know he's sure of my love. So that's what's important. I can understand that, for him, there is too much emotional attachment that he doesn't know what to do about. and issues he's not ready to unpack.
Since he and his wife moved a couple thousand miles from both families, not seeing them appears fairly normal. Our family gathered for several days for my mother's memorial service 2 years ago and he appreciated my keeping my distance to give him space. I try to sense what he wants and doesn't want from me. I send cards for special occasions and gifts for his babies, for birthdays and Christmas. I also send occasional brief email updates so he's not out of touch with our lives.
He's quite unique and he needs time and space to really find himself... away from the mother he probably never was as close to as he had wished.
I have a full life and I think he does too. Plus, there's a family reunion this summer, so at least I'll have a week where I can observe and meet my new granddaughter..
{{{This response does not apply to substance abuse situation.}}}
For those parents suffering this, my heart truly goes out to you. As a Mom of young teens, I pay attention to this only because my brother did this to our parents; our whole family actually. I've never understood it. As a young boy, always described as a bit shy and terribly sweet. As a teen, I remember my brother always selfish, impatient and easily wounded, embarrassed or offended. He's still pretty much that way, though an old guy these days, he just doesn't want to be bothered. Being bothered means -- anything NOT on his personal agenda. After returning from an overseas assignment, while still in our early 20's, my brother and I met at our parents' home. Having not seen him in 4 years, when I saw him arrive, I went running out into the driveway to hug him ---- and I offended him by hugging him too tight. He said of this years later, it embarrassed him. To this day, I can't understand his mindset.
The estrangement had more to do with him than anyone else, yet my parents felt very much accused as they were guilty for how my brother described all the offenses from his youth and how he was made to feel. In his late teens, he wouldn't have anything to do with our grandmother citing some new reason he wouldn't explain. He became very emotional when our grandfather died, but never kept in touch with him after High School. He was never interested to keep in touch with our extended family of uncles, aunts or cousins.
Our parents are hard working and imperfect, but they did their best. I am bewildered by my brother still to this day. As I read the heart breaking stories of other parents, I am equally bewildered by the adult child that wants to nurse old wounds or feel more at ease to rebuff now that they don't "need" their parents anymore.
My parents never allowed my brother's rejection of them to get in the way of their love for him. They have gone through a very long, dark valley and they now accept their son as the selfish man he's chosen to be. They had to mourn the son they thought he was and accept the man he is --- that has been frightening for me to watch as I have a son that's soon to be 13. I don't want that to be my life. It concerns me. My parents don't question his peculiar behavior anymore. They realize that they could buy an airplane ticket to travel to his graduation ceremony one moment and not speak again nor see each other for the next 5 years --- without reason or provocation. The next time they saw him was to attend his son's graduation ceremony. When my Mom first saw him, she turned to wipe her tears to avoid crying in front of him. They didn't get a private moment with him at all. He said hello, kissed and hugged them both. They spoke via Face Time at Christmas. And perhaps, my parents will see him again, but only if they fly out once again to attend the 2nd grandson's graduation in May. They are self employed retirees and living just barely on their social security. Plane tickets? Hotels? This is back breaking expensive for them. My brother doesn't even consider the sacrifice of their attendance.
I respect my parents for the people they've chosen to be. They're strong people. My father has always said, "When you're green you're growing and when you're ripe, you rot." He has shown even at 78 -- he's still green. They humble themselves and they don't do it out of weakness or begging, but out of love and strength. Frankly, to be very honest, I don't want to have to be that strong!! It's scary. I want my children to love and respect me, especially after the love and sacrifice of our best years with them. We want and hope so much for them! My parents were raised with much less, but gave us (including my brother) so much more. We had hard times like every family and they didn't always make the best decisions concerning us, but here we are. I know they did their best (at the time), with all the pressures they lived with and the exhaustion.
Each adult child has to make their own choice whether or not to mature into the kind of person that can forgive another human being and have enough grace and fullness of heart to love no matter what or to put themselves last. The Lord says to Honor your Father and Mother so that all will go well with you! This is the only command that has a promise at the end of it. Children, listen!
Speaking to their grandson on the phone, my parents asked to speak to his father and he refused to come to the phone. To show such open disrespect? This was during the long silence ---- the first time. It's happened many times since over the years. It broke my father's heart. He just sat at the kitchen table and cried. How can that make *any* adult child feel better about any past wound or hurt? Only the very weak can stand on the neck of his/her brokenhearted father.
We are all someone's child, even our parents are somebody's kid. Do you know how your parents were raised? Do you know their little boy and little girl hurts? Can't we all just stop passing down the hurt? Just, stop. Love instead. Be gracious to your parents --- they are the only two people on this earth that gave you life. Be gracious to them while you have them.
What can any of you share with me to prevent this from happening to me? The pressures and worries surrounding me today are many. My son is overcoming a few learning deficiencies. Once upon a time, the teachers would hold us in from recess and *make* us do our work, but that doesn't happen today. They pass even when the kids fail! When pushed, can any of you believe the school district told me that as the parent I was the one responsible for my child's education? Well, of course I am. I'm just glad they agree! No one can be trusted to do a parents job today. I have to protect them from themselves digitally (Hey Mom, can I have a FB account?" No, you're just 10!) Can any of you just imagine all the mistakes I'm making?? I set rules, they don't like them. They disbey? They have consequences. They also have to contribute to our home by doing certain everyday chores. They feel this is abuse as none of their other friends have chores and they have iPhones, iPads, FB, Instagram ---- and money in their pocket. They also go on vacations and spring break every year. I don't know how these parents are doing it ---- I can't. I just signed my son up for lacrosse and after all expenses paid? Before one game is even played? It's nearly $900. My daughter's coveted high school jacket was $400. The year book is $100 and she's already looking at her high school ring which is estimated at $600 --- that doesn't even count in graduation expenses or swimming or orchestra. How do I worry about how they feel, when I have so much else to worry about?? How do I know which mistake will be the one they come back on me with 10 years from now?
Adult children, is it really so hard to look on your parents as people and appreciate all that you were given and forgive them for whatever it was about them that wounded you? Every single parent makes mistakes and these disrespectful children that will be parents one day, will surely make their own.
My children are complete opposites. I wish I was 20 again when I had all the answers.
Hi Diana, I'm sorry that your brother is estranged from your parents. It doesn't sound like anyone knows why, but he must have his reasons for it. Could it be something that happened when he was very young that you don't know about?
You might get a lot from reading the book: Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It's not about estrangement, but is more about how many of us fail to mature emotionally and lack the skills as parents or adult children to manage our emotions effectively. It might help you to understand the possible causes of your brother's estrangement, and possibly reassure you about your own children.
Different children can respond so differently to the same parents or the same upbringing. Could it be that your brother doesn't have the skills to make his relationship with your parents work the way that you do? Many boys are pressured to show no feelings at all as children. They are taught not only not to feel but to not ask for help when they need it. Perhaps he has some trauma from the past that he hasn't talked about?
It doesn't sound like you have any information about why your brother chose to estrange from your parents and so you're left wondering if this could easily happen with your own children. But it's really unlikely if you are the kind of parent (which it seems like you are) who thinks about what kind of parent to be. That ability to self-reflect and to be self-aware are really important as a parent.
I get it that it seems way too easy to cut someone out of your life. When my grandmother died, my mom estranged herself from her 4 siblings. Then 20 years later, she is estranged from me now too. It starts to feel like anything can happen, like your kids could grow up and stop speaking to you too. That is when I remind myself that I'm nothing like my own mother, who cannot apologize to save her life, and is always right. She subscribes to the idea that children should be seen and not heard, and have no emotional needs only physical ones. In fact, growing up with her as a mom made me a better mom, because I swore I'd never be like her, never do to my kids what she did to us, never treat them the way she treated us. I've read and learned about my kids, their unique personalities and temperaments. I recognize their individuality and genuinely care about their needs, something my mother wasn't capable of.
My mom had me and my sister because she wanted someone to love HER unconditionally. Basically she had it backwards. Children don't ask to be born, and don't owe their parents love. A child's very survival depends on their parent meeting their needs. So what a child feels is not love, it's dependence and need. It can eventually evolve into the kind of caring love so many parents want to get from their children, but that will only happen if the parent does a good enough job meeting their children's needs when they are children.
Instead of focusing on meeting our needs, my mother focused on getting obligatatory love and respect from her children, but that is not real love. What you get when you demand love and respect is a show, not the real thing. She never allowed us to be ourselves, or express our real feelings. There was no room in our house for anyone's authentic feelings and needs but my mother's. She demanded we act in specific ways toward her, no matter what we were feeling inside. We obeyed her until we realized we didn't have to obey her anymore.
With my own children, I am focusing on meeting their needs, physical and emotional. My goal as a parent is to raise adults that can go out in the world and form good relationships with other people: friends, teachers, bosses, coworkers, partners and their own children. I do care about how my kids treat me, because that's important feedback for how well I'm doing raising them, for how well-adjusted they are, and how they will treat other people in the world. But I do not expect to be on a pedestal due to my role as their mother, as my mother did.
As a parent, what I know is that raising kids is not about meeting MY needs. It's not about whether I am loved, or respected, or known by my children. It's all about them, learning about them, understanding them and what they need. Does this child need more structure or more freedom? Does this child need to take others into consideration more or to consider themselves more? Every lesson is about what that child needs to become their best self.
I'll be happy as long as they are happy and safe, regardless of how often they call me, or regardless of whether they send me a card on Mother's Day. I gave my mother plenty of cards, but none of them were from my heart. If I get anything from my adult children, I want it to be from their true hearts.
@Jon
With all due respect Jon, how does adding to your Mom's brokenness help her or you in anyway? What would you do if a disfigured or mentally challenged son or daughter were born to you? Would you abandon them because loving them would be too taxing on you? I see loving your mother no different than this. She is very broken. My MIL had body parts flying by her when she was a little girl in Germany. She is also broken in many ways. Broken people need to be loved, too. And Jon, we're all broken in some way. You can't fix this anymore than you could a disfigured body, but there is always grace to be found and surprising moments of joy along the way. Choose just one thing you can do to love your Mom, then slowly add to it. You're not loving her to suit your own needs. Your loving her because of who she is and it will come from your strength. Love her right where she is ----- a son is a treasure. Know that.
Can you accept your mother's weakness and love her anyway?
Wow, both of you have very unique perspectives and make great points.Thank you both for sharing.
I will say that both of your points could be the correct option. Jon could have already tried Diana's advice but was not able to deal with his mother over many years time (I presume).