Kids who exhibit behaviors of oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) are not your typical kids. They behave in ways that scream “I don’t care what you want me to do” and truly have little or no regard for what their parents or society expect of them.
Finding effective consequences for these kids is difficult. Unlike typical kids, ODD kids often act as if nothing matters to them, which can make it hard for you to know how to respond to their behavior and what consequences to give.
So, how can you possibly make consequences effective for kids who don’t care about consequences?
The good news is that you can make consequences work with an ODD child. But, you have to know what kind of consequences to use. And you need to know that consequences that work with a typical child just won’t work with an ODD child.
Read on to better understand how your ODD child thinks and the types of consequences that are effective with them.
ODD Kids Thrive on Conflict
Typical kids (who are not ODD) know there’s a line you just don’t cross and, except for testing limits sometimes, they generally follow your rules and respond to consequences.
In contrast, ODD kids cross the line all the time. They don’t respect limits. They break the rules daily. It can wear a parent down to the point of feeling overwhelmed and exhausted.
ODD kids also thrive on the chaos that comes from the battles you have over control. Sometimes they’ll even create those situations out of the blue. Maybe they’re bored, irritable, or having a bad day. Pushing a parent’s emotional buttons can be entertaining and gives the child a sense of power and control.
When you experience this regularly, you start to question yourself: “Am I doing something wrong? Is this my fault?” It leaves you feeling vulnerable, guilty, embarrassed, and ashamed. It feels like you’re being judged by others—and, indeed, parents of ODD kids are often judged harshly by society. It feels very lonely.
ODD Kids Resist Any Type of Control
Typical kids will allow you, as a parent, to have some type of control over their behavior. If you ground them, they’ll stay home. ODD kids will climb out the bedroom window five minutes after you’ve grounded them.
Typical kids will change their behavior because they are uncomfortable with a consequence and don’t want to experience it again. ODD kids may indeed feel uncomfortable by a consequence but are committed to resisting it. They will always look for ways to get around the consequence.
And ODD kids are often very bright and creative when it comes to resisting consequences. One mom we know told us, “You know, my daughter would make an excellent lawyer someday—she can and will argue about anything!”
Typical Consequences Don’t Work With ODD Kids
Why does it seem like consequences aren’t working with your ODD child? Probably because you’re using consequences you would give a typical child.
We usually expect a child will respond to consequences—loss of privileges or losing a parent’s trust—in a way that makes him uncomfortable, which will lead the child to change his behavior.
The problem is, ODD kids will stand there while parents are addressing an issue or concern, and the look on the child’s face says it all: “I don’t care.” And often they’ll come right out and tell you they don’t care.
Reactions like that can leave you feeling frustrated, furious, and desperate to influence your child in some way. Unfortunately, when emotions come into play, your logical approach to consequences goes right out the window. You end up in a power struggle, and ODD kids are masters at the game of control.
Fail-Proof Consequences for ODD Kids
In our work with ODD kids and their parents, we use something called fail-proof consequences. Fail-proof consequences are effective with oppositional defiant kids because full control over the consequence rests with you, the parent. Much of our work involves showing parents exactly how to create and use this type of consequence.
Fail-Proof Consequences Put the Parent in Control
If your child has any control over the potential consequence at all, it’s not fail-proof. For example, if you tell your child he can’t use the internet, do you have complete control over that? Not really. Your child can always surf the web while you’re asleep or at work or even in the same room. ODD kids are bold and think nothing of flaunting your consequence in your face, something a typical kid isn’t likely to do.
Now, if you suspend the internet service for a few days or weeks, do you have complete control over that? Yes. You pay the bill and your child can’t get it turned back on without your permission. It may mean you can’t use wifi at home, but you still have ultimate control over that consequence.
Alternatively, you could change your wifi password or unplug your router. You could even take the router with you when leaving the house so that he can’t use wifi when you are away. This may seem extreme, but it’s a way to make the consequence fail-proof and you have to think creatively at times to make a consequence fail-proof.
Your child may try to get around the consequence by going online at a friend’s house or somewhere else, but your consequence—that he isn’t allowed to use the internet at home—stands firm. Ultimately, you can only control what you control.
Another consequence parents often use is restricting their child’s phone use. Is it fail-proof? Again, not really. Your child can always sneak and use it when you’re not looking.
But, if your child has a phone and you suspend his service, is that fail-proof? Yes. You pay the bill and have complete control over the service. Your child may still have a phone, but its functionality is severely limited. It’s true that he could he use wifi-only apps, but it is very inconvenient compared with having a normal phone plan with voice and data.
In the end, you have complete control over whether or not you’re paying for his voice and data service. Therefore, in that respect, the consequence of suspending his phone service is fail-proof.
The Fail-Proof Consequence Test
To test the effectiveness of the fail-proof consequence, ask yourself, “Will I be able to follow through with this in the face of my child’s potential out-right defiance and refusal to comply?” If the answer is “yes,” then you have complete control over the consequence.
Understand, though, that if you are unwilling to follow through on the consequence, then it isn’t fail-proof.
A Different Way to Think About Consequences
We tend to think of consequences as something that changes behavior. But that’s not always the case. Just because someone experiences a consequence doesn’t necessarily mean they will change their behavior. If that were true, everyone would drive the speed limit once they received one ticket. But we all know there are repeat offenders.
And your ODD child is likely a repeat offender. But know this: even though he acts like he doesn’t care about consequences, he probably does care. He’s not likely to thank you for giving him a consequence and he may not change his behavior right away. But by consistently giving and sticking to fail-proof consequences, you’ve done what you can as a parent. You’re teaching your child that when he or she does A then B will always follow. And that alone is important.
Look, our job as parents is to prepare our kids for the real world. In the real world, there are consequences. You, as the parent, are responsible for the consequence, not the behavior.
Is It ODD or Conduct Disorder?
You may be reading this and thinking, “Yeah, but even fail-proof consequences won’t work with my kid. My child is aggressive and destroys my property. He steals from me and uses drugs.”
In those cases, you probably have a teen who has moved beyond ODD and into what is known as conduct disorder. In these cases, kids violate the rights of others and your fail-proof consequences will likely need to involve the police or the legal system. Parents often become frustrated dealing with those systems but it may be necessary to do so.
Related content: Intimidating Teen Behavior: Is It ODD or Conduct Disorder?
The Strengths of an ODD Child
Each of us has a journey in this life—to decide who we are and what we want to be. ODD kids have existed since the beginning of time–they’re our rebels. They bring about changes in society because they simply will not accept the status quo.
We need our rebels. They often challenge us in uncomfortable, but useful ways. They possess strengths like determination, a strong will, and the courage to be different.
Many of our entertainers, inventors, and successful citizens were oppositional growing up. Steve Jobs of Apple Inc. and our own James Lehman, creator of The Total Transformation® child behavior program, were both ODD kids who went on to positively impact the lives of others. If everyone was the same—what a boring world this would be.
Conclusion
When you’re the parent of an ODD child, it’s not easy. ODD kids challenge you and they don’t respond to the same kinds of parenting techniques that work with other kids. We’re here to offer you some new techniques that work, so you can hold your child accountable for his behavior and prepare him for the real world. Please keep reading—and don’t give up hope. We know what you’re going through and we can help you survive!
Related content:
When to Call the Police on Your Child
Why the Word “No” Sets off an Oppositional, Defiant Child
Notes and References
About Kim Abraham, LMSW and Marney Studaker-Cordner, LMSW
Kimberly Abraham and Marney Studaker-Cordner are the co-creators of The ODD Lifeline® for parents of Oppositional, Defiant kids, and Life Over the Influence™, a program that helps families struggling with substance abuse issues (both programs are included in The Total Transformation® Online Package). Kimberly Abraham, LMSW, has worked with children and families for more than 25 years. She specializes in working with teens with behavioral disorders, and has also raised a child with Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Marney Studaker-Cordner, LMSW, is the mother of four and has been a therapist for 15 years. She works with children and families and has in-depth training in the area of substance abuse. Kim and Marney are also the co-creators of their first children's book, Daisy: The True Story of an Amazing 3-Legged Chinchilla, which teaches the value of embracing differences and was the winner of the 2014 National Indie Excellence Children's Storybook Cover Design Award.
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We discovered a fail proof consequence without even realising it was a fail proof consequence . We didn’t even realise what we were doing had a name : uninvolved parenting. Now hear me out before you gasp.
My 16YO son was aggressive, assaulting his siblings, not following rules and there was so much conflict in the house between us his parents.
Because he thrived on the conflict, we decided to not engage him at all. We do not speak to him, he comes and goes as he pleases . He sleeps out when he wants .He uses our place like a hotel - eats, sleeps doesn’t do his chores . We never know where he is and we don’t ask. He smokes marijuana - he has dared smoke in the house once and not only did we threaten to call the police (he already has a caution) but we told him he would never see his younger siblings (5&7 he adores them - only hates his 15 yo bro he’s assaulted). That seemed to stop the smoking in the house .
Long story short - we withdrew all communication . He does not get involved in family activities . That is something we as parents can control- whether or not he has a relationship with us. We are just waiting til he’s 18 for him to get out. It’s sad and this is not how I imagined it to be but think about what it takes for us to get here ? I’d rather live without conflict and risk traumatising the rest of my kids , and live under constant stress. We’ve spent thousands of dollars over the years in family therapy , access to good schools . We’ve done everything and it will never be enough. And yes I know the impact of uninvolved parenting . Believe me it is better than the alternative .
The only positive here is since we’ve withdrawn, apart from basic rule violations he actually still attends school , doesn’t do law breaking stuff ,and gets good grades . We act unbothered by the daily disrespect . Over the years - this seems like the only thing that has created the most peace and harmony in our life . We’ve taken away the one thing he used to thrive on - conflict . And we actually have peace .
This has been a eureka article for us.
Fail proof is hard and requires us to feel the possible heartache if our daughter fails… but maybe the things that are truly important to her will become more apparent through this process.
I have refused to drive her anywhere but school and home if she violates our (most sacred) rules. We’ve decided that some battles aren’t worth it.
Hello.
I’m a mom of a 16 year old with ADHD and ODD. As I was reading your comment, I can definitely relate to what your family are going through. I have a very hard time disciplining him, he always questions me like, He’s my parent. He gets angry if I try to talk to him about right n wrong. He listens to my husband but not to me. We are very laid back too and I always tell him that if he only list to my advice we wouldn’t be having this problem, it works for a minute but here we go again. Also too, he is a sweetie to everyone else but really me.
Not sure what year you commented but how is everything going now? Do you have any advice?
Thinking about treatment but I feel he will only shutdown.
This article has given me some ideas on how to deal with the 10 year old son and the comments from previous posters have loosened a knot in my stomach. Just knowing that other people are surviving and thriving in situations like ours gives me hope.
My eldest was never typical. He gave me trouble in the womb. Literally started fighting me before he was born. He was advance even as in infant. He waa fully capable of getting himself around the living room at 3mos. He progress was off the charts for every milestone, includimg walking at 7mos. I knew he waa different. The defiance started manifesting before he was 1yo. He would look straight at me and repeatedly do what he was told not to. I noticed a lack of empathy in him after his little brother was born, but my oldest was also able to be kind and gentle. He was unpredictible and still is. As he got older, the flat refusals escalated, temper tantrums were fullblown defcon situations. The first time i told him to do something and he said "ok, mama." I CRIED. He was 5 atthat point. School became a constant battle with his teachers and peers. While he could make friends, it was solely on his terms and he worked to antagonize everyone. By 3rd grade, after countless iep meetings and meetings with counselors and whole teams of "experts" he was still apending 90% of his time out of the classroom. He is diagnosed with ADD and ODD and is on meds for the ADD now. He has also been displayinb tourettes-like syptoms. Home life with him was and is minute to minute. He's fine if he is left alone, but any expectation put upon him is met with explosive defiance and rudeness. I strive to work with him and model kindness, respect and communication and give him as many options as i can before resorting to consequences. I have learned that physical reassurance works in most situations to calm him, but i cant sit beside him and massage and stroke his back and hug him all day. He tries to control everyone with intimidation, which isnt hard because he is 4'11 and weighs 110 pounds. He's nearly as big as me. He has pushed and at hit me. I refuse to engage him when he behaves that way, calmly sending him to his room. He laughs at my consequences and will calls me names and throws things. I make him stay in his room until he is calm, checking in with him occasionally, asking if he is ready to be calm. That usually works, but his defiance and behaviors take so much time out of the day, I am often on time constraints and lose my temper and end up yelling at him after i have been calm and patient for hours at a time. He is often cruel and provoking to his younger, smaller brother and I have to work to protect him.
I am homeschooling him now and he is getting good grades, but it is a daily fight to accomplish the work that does get done because i refuse to give in, but it is exhausting. His currency changes rapidly and is hard to keep up with. He is forgetful, sloppy and unhelpful. If I get him to pick up one or two small things, I feel accomplished and it's frustrating and i am burnt out. His father and i are in early stages of divorve and his father, while living with us is mostly absent and i have no family near to help. He escalates his behaviors onthe one evening a week when his dad is around,which makes it more challenging because they fight and it provides me with a healty dose of anxiety. I worry about my son when he is not with me and i worry about him when he is. There seems to be little peace and i know every single day when i wake up that the battles will start when his feet hit the floor. I know i will be verbally abused, being called a "penis" or a "jerk" simply for aaking him to eat breakfast or get dressed. When i refuse to be treated that way and walk away, he screams and cries for me not to leave him. I ask him to tell me what he wants me to do. Usually, he wants me to wait on him hand and foot, which i refuse to do if he can do it for himself, for which, i am again called a "jerk". He demands so much from me, i get to the point where i feel brittle and like i will break if one more demand is made. That makes it difficult too, when my younger son needs something and my older one seesel me doing what the little one needs. I get screamed at "why do you do thay for him, when you wont even get me milk?" Balancing them by myself is mentally, physically, and emotionally soul sucking. I am looking for a lightswitch to help me see hope.
Articles and this do give me a glimmer of that hope that i can find a way to manage all of this and help him become a happy, healty, functioning adult.
I am the mom of a 15 year old son who was diagnosed, over a year ago, with ADHD and Oppositional Defiant Disorder. It has been quite the year.
I am struggling to get him to pass his first year of high school. He does not want to do homework, study for tests or complete projects. He needs to attened summer school for one class, so far. Then we have the swearing, inappropriate talk, outburts, lying or exaggerating and tantrums. If he is told no, he can't, mention school or homework he will slam his door, throw things, swear, yell, pound on the walls and will argue or try to argue with anyone that is within his eyesight.
He has had a few incidences at school with an inappropriate comment and a form of bullying.
My 17 year old daughter tells him she is so tired of listening to him and my 6 year old is and has picked up on all of this.
I am trying my hardest to keep calm and not engage in arguments with him. I constantly try to build him up, tell him how smart he is but explain if he cannot be responsible for himself and school then he is not going to have things he wants. He has not had a phone or ipad for about 8 months. He can only use the computer for school work, which doesn't happen that often. The PlayStation he gets as a reward but this creates issues because he thinks he should get to play all the time, just another tantrum.
I have told him more times then I can count what will happen if he doesn't pass his classes but it's like he either doesn't really get it or he just doesn't care. I just don't know what it is, but I know it's frustrating.
His dad and I share custody, we alternate weeks. I don't think his dad understands or recognizes he has a type of mental illness, he thinks he is just being a "jerk". I don't think any of this helps the situation.
I'm putting in so much effort, mentally and physically but I feel like I am failing him. I'm not sure how to help him.
Hello
Me and my husband are adopted parents too. Our youngest son 16 has ODD, it is a challenge day to day, mood swings, gets angry over nothing, he tries to be our parent, always questions us when we try to discipline him.
I am so glad to find this site, hopefully to gain insight and advice. Trying our best to raise him up right.
Ann24
I hear you. I
speak with families every day about the challenges they face as a result of
their child’s behavioral problems, so you are not alone in facing this
dilemma. Ultimately, the choice of whether to quit your job is one that
you have to make for yourself. In the meantime, I encourage you to
continue working your daughter and her therapist to help her learn more
effective coping and communication skills. You might find some useful
tips in https://www.empoweringparents.com/article/anger-rage-and-explosive-outbursts-how-to-respond-to-your-child-or-teens-anger/.
I wish you and your family all the best as you continue to move forward.
Take care.
I feel your pain...really I do. I had such dreams for my 14 yr old son and having to throw those dreams away and rethink my approach to parenting has been VERY hard. We have dealt with many of the same intense battles and, as a mom, we tend to see this as OUR failure. It's not. Our sons and daughters are their own people. We can be the best parent in the world but it comes down their own choice in how to live.
I told my son that either he go to counseling and get some tools to deal with HIS issues (because they are his, not mine) or he would be moving out of state to live with his grandparents for at least a couple months so I could heal.
I made a "3 strikes you're out" sheet and put it on the fridge. He didn't take me seriously...thought it was merely a threat, and now as of December 26 he will be temporarily living with my parents. The feelings of failure have been intense but after getting some good counsel myself, I realize that this is a new beginning. I will not let my son control me or my emotions. And, honestly, now his eyes are open. (I heard him brainstorming with my husband a REAL plan to change his behavior and walk it out. )
I'm so sorry you are going through this.
broken hearted74
Everything you have posted is exactly how I feel about my 15 year old with ODD. I'm so sorry you are going through this. I'm fortunate to have my husband of 20+ years for support, so I honestly don't know how you do it. We adopted our 15 year old from foster care when he was 7-1/2 and I really wish I knew then what I know now. When you say your household is miserable, I feel the same way! It seems that no matter what we do or don't do, it doesn't work for long if at all. He can be so ugly with his words and actions and it's WAY too often! He has been in and out of our home for the past 3 years and when he is gone, it is so peaceful and relaxed. He's in our home and everything revolves around him. You can't take a breath. We too cannot wait until he's 18 and we can legally have him out of our home. It's sad to say that about your own child, but it's so stressful living like this!!!
Being that your here, on this site, making a comment means that your looking for help and solutions to your sons issues. A definite step in the right direction. It tells me that there is still strength in you to combat this family debilitating mental disorder that you are ALL going through.
A brief history of my circumstances I have a husband with ADHD, my eldest a daughter who has ODD, my middle son has ADHD and my youngest son, other than some anxiety issues (totally understandable considering his living conditions) is your typical average kid. Me, I have been wrangling this circus for over 15 years. I'm tired, I'm frustrated, I'm confused, I'm angry, I'm fatigued. That being said, I'm also a fighter and I don't quit easily, who hoo for me.
For me it's like I'm being dragged into the Twighlight Zone daily with bouts of Alice in Wonderland thrown in just in case I think I'm getting the hang of things. One of the things my therapist gave me advice on is 'to take time out for myself', purely so that I can regroup my obliviated brain cells so that I can go back in and fight the good fight. Your right, it's draining. Hands down the ODD candidate in my family has been my biggest struggle to deal with. I constantly deal with feelings of inadequacy around her and just when I think we have turned a corner, boom, it starts all over again but from a different angle. I also noticed I get easily dragged, or goaded into her aggressions and arguments, something I still need to work on.
I do find that workable consequences have helped me navigate this alien landscape with her, not all the time, but admittedly most of the time. The hardest thing was finding what her currency was. At the moment it's her social life (she's almost 15 years old) and the internet also has some impact as well. My husband, as well meaning as he tries to be is not very consistent, ADHD a real bummer when it comes to consistent parenting, but what has also helped is that when he's around, the consequence is said to her with both of us present so that it stops her from manipulating us by saying 'mum said I could' or 'dad said I could' (she is a master at manipulation, she could sell ice to an Eskimo in the middle of winter while there's a blizzard). They say it takes a village to raise a child but in these cases it takes a city, with all concerned reading from the same hand book.
There is no easy solution (I wish), but I have found that with consistency, workable consequences (have to be workable otherwise your wasting your time and your sanity) and determination, it can alleviate some of the nightmare that is navigating this condition. I was also taught to pick my battles and if I did, never lose, also never give them an inch because they will take a mile, every time, and to keep the dialogue black and white, no grey areas otherwise it leaves them space to manipulate in to then argue about the consequences (more drain on the brain having to outthink them).
Is it just me, but do you feel like screaming when you see one of those happy, everybody getting on fine, family scenarios on TV, like that's normal. To me that's akin to winning the lottery, it just ain't going to happen in my lifetime.
Chin up, regroup and take care of yourself.
Your son needs you (even though he may not admit it).
Yes. Me too. Don't crave the time when he leaves home though. My daughter's defiance takes the forms of smashing crockery, furniture, damaging walls, cutting up my clothes, school refusal for two years and going missing over 80times in two years.
Every time she's missing it's agony, hell. At least he's alive and kicking! Pun intended. I never know where she is and all those consequences that make home less attractive merely result in her going off again.
Still no diagnosis and no support- in the UK the coalition government cut funding for children's mental health services by 50% in 2010, and after two years my daughter is still waiting to see a psychologist.
I really feel for you. I'm going to buy the books on conduct disorder and see if they help. If we get through this we will have the negotiation skills to bring peace to the Middle East!!!! Good luck
Love
Ruth
@Mom of three
I can hear how much
you care about your son, and want to help him. Although it’s natural to
want to address all of the inappropriate behaviors he is displaying, it’s
probably going to be more effective to pick one or two to focus on first.
Based on what you have described, I recommend focusing on his behavior toward
his siblings, and the property destruction. If you haven’t done so
already, I also encourage you to check in with his doctor to rule out any
underlying physical or medical issues which might be contributing to his
toileting accidents. We have some additional articles you might find
useful in developing your plan moving forward, such as https://www.empoweringparents.com/article/my-odd-child-is-physically-abusive-to-siblings-and-parents-help/ and https://www.empoweringparents.com/article/is-your-defiant-child-damaging-or-destroying-property/ I recognize how
difficult this must be for you and your family, and I wish you all the best as
you continue to move forward. Take care.
@tsloan
Thank you for your
question. While some people diagnosed with ODD can become violent or
otherwise engage in behavior which poses a safety risk to others, this does not
mean that everyone with this diagnosis is violent. You can find more
information about ODD in our article https://www.empoweringparents.com/article/understanding-oppositional-defiant-disorder/. Take care.
holly11
You ask a common question which we often hear from parents:
is it too late? From our perspective, https://www.empoweringparents.com/article/its-never-too-late-7-ways-to-start-parenting-more-effectively/ to change. While change can be more difficult when
patterns have been ongoing for a long time, it is not impossible. I am
sorry to hear about the behaviors you are experiencing with your son, from
verbal abuse to property destruction to police involvement. We have many
articles and other resources here on our site which address these, and other,
topics. It’s also normal to feel upset and overwhelmed when you have been
dealing with this type of defiant behavior for a while, and I hope that you are
also taking care of yourself during this time. Self-care is an often
overlooked, yet important part of being an effective parent. Your
self-care plan can be anything you wish, from engaging in an activity you enjoy
to using more structured supports such as counseling or support groups.
For information about this type of support in your area, try contacting the http://www.211.org/ at 1-800-273-6222. It can get
better with your son, and I’m glad that you’re here. Take care.
kayway32
Thank you for sharing your experiences, and I recognize how
exhausted and overwhelmed you must feel in the face of your stepson’s
behavior. The fact that your stepson is abusive toward his brother, and
talks about hurting and killing animals is quite concerning, and I strongly
encourage you to take these statements and actions seriously. If you
haven’t already done so, I encourage you to develop a https://www.empoweringparents.com/article/the-lost-children-when-behavior-problems-traumatize-siblings/ for your family which will keep all members (including animals) safe
from harm. Sometimes, using local supports, such as a family counselor,
crisis services, and/or law enforcement, can be important resources to include
when developing such a plan. For assistance locating these and other
services in your community, try contacting the http://www.211.org/ at 1-800-273-6222. I can only imagine how difficult this
must be for you, and I wish you and your family all the best as you continue to
move forward. Take care.
@Jaded
I hear you. I understand how overwhelmed you might be
feeling right now with everything that has happened within the past year.
It is concerning that when you make a request of your son, he is now responding
with threats to harm himself, run away, or otherwise put himself at risk.
I encourage you to take these statements seriously, and to work with local
supports to develop a safety plan you can implement if he continues to say
things like this, or escalates in some way. For example, you might
consult with his doctor, or call the police during a calm time, to see what
actions they would recommend. If you are not already doing so, you might
also consider working with a counselor or therapist who has experience with
divorce, blended families, and/or an incarcerated parent. For assistance
locating resources in your area, try contacting the http://www.211.org/ at 1-800-273-6222. I
recognize how challenging this must be for you and your family right now, and I
wish you all the best as you continue to move forward. Take care.
at the end of my rope
Dr. Lehman suggests that you say something like this (this is not verbatim): "I understand that you are angry because you cannot find your books, but screaming and raising your voice is not going to get you what you want. When you can ask me without screaming, I will be able to help you." And then you turn around and walk away. Easier said than done, but I am confident that it should work if you stick to it.
After reading this, I wonder if my daughter is ODD. She has been exhibiting pubescent attitudes toward us since 11 or 12 years old, but this year has reached an all time high. In fact, she has said that for 14 years she obeyed everything we said (I wish I could agree with her) but now she is going to do what SHE wants to do. I started controlling internet access from the router recently. I only recently learned that it was possible to schedule internet use for each device that uses it. Now she really cannot use the internet during the times we said it was not allowed. Now, I see that I can use this to further restrict use as a consequence for bad behavior.
I wonder how much disrespect I should take. One day I broke into tears for the disrespect she was showing me.(Not while she was at home) My children are homeschooled and this daughter claims that I NEVER teach her anything. This is blatantly untrue of course. She also says that I NEVER have time for her when she needs a question answered so I gave her my "office hours" so that she does not come to me at 9:00 at night when my brain is tired and I cannot think anymore. Yet, she still claims this. One day she told me that I was so annoying, the most annoying person in the world and that any disrespect from her end was justified as a result. I responded (calmly) that it is o.k. if she finds me annoying because she will meet many more annoying people in her life and some even more annoying than me and learning how to deal with annoying people in a polite and calm way is an important skill to learn early on. Of course, my answer was annoying and unreasonable because she stormed out of the room saying that she will just avoid all annoying people in her life.
Today when I told her that she was supposed to be doing her homework and not shopping for eyeglasses, she said that she was practically finished with all of her work. I suggested she use the extra time to study how to use her new graphing calculator at which time she complained that she needed new eyeglasses and if I wasn't going to buy them for her, then she needed to do it herself. I reminded her that she has glasses that are fully functional and that her only complaint to me was that she didn't feel a need to wear them. Therefore, it wasn't a need, but a want. Then she said that because I had two pairs of glasses, she should have 2 pair as well. I asked her if she could please show me where my second pair was since I was unaware of owning more than one pair of glasses.
This degraded into my daughter telling me that I should go back and do whatever I'm supposed to be doing and stop bothering her. Yesterday she told me that I was supposed to give her money for doing nothing. Giving money for doing chores is not acceptable to her because, supposedly, all of the other mothers in the world give their kids money for doing nothing. I told her that nobody gives me money for doing nothing and that I have to work for all of the money I am given. This did not illicit any kind of positive response. Only that I owed her something.
Some time ago I sat the children down and showed them how much money we made, showed them how much we pay for rent, utilities, food, and other basic living expenses. There was very little left over. I also told them that we would not be able to pay for their college education but that we would help them find ways to fund it in other ways. (Scholarships, loans, etc) Last night she complained to my husband that I wasn't going to pay for her college education. I also do not understand why all of this ire is directed toward me? Why doesn't she have the same expectations for my husband? And where did this sense of entitlement come from? My other daughter who is 13.5 does not think in any way the same. She is grateful for every job opportunity we give her. She volunteers to help me in the kitchen even when it is not her turn. She doesn't expect anything from us at all. And she doesn't criticize me.
She also lies. Constantly. Even when she is caught red-handed, she still claims that what we are seeing is not true. OR, she will claim that I had given her permission in the past for doing this unapproved of activity. (Don't you remember?) It is very difficult to love this child with the motherly love I had toward her when she was even 14 years old.
I have adopted the "Catch them doing good" motto. Although, I recognize that I need to do this more for positive behaviours, I do see the positive feeling that she gets in herself. But her outbursts are so sudden and unpredictable.
@sparz Hello, Your story is one I could have written. My husband and I have a daughter who is now 23. She was a handful to raise. Now she is on her own. She was formally diagnosed with ADHD when she was 10 and with ODD when she was 13. The lying was constant and I couldn't understand it as we did not lie to her. We modeled truth telling to her and to others in front of her. I had a father who lied to me and so I knew from first-hand experience that lying is no way to run a relationship. I have, until now, rejected the idea that she was ODD. It was just not possible my beautiful daughter was purposely and pathologically oppositional. However, I also know the reason the Doc gave her that diagnosis is she went into those bi-weekly sessions and spent much of the time telling the fellow what a horrible mother I was.
As my daughter is older I can tell you that it gets better. She now thinks we are good parents and claims she tells all her friends this. She also tells the truth a great deal more often. It is difficult for us to check all she says, but we have not caught her in a lie in sometime, and she has admitted things which previously she would have absolutely lied about.
Still I can tell you it remains difficult. She just finished giving me quite a dressing down about all the things I do wrong. Principally the two most disturbing things I did that drew her indignation and wrath were, ignore and walk past a street vendor here in Greece (where we are visiting at the moment) who had called out to me, and show annoyance with the cloak room girl at a museum who would not take my coat but insisted they only took bags when I could see the coat rack right there. I did not raise my voice but simply asked about three times for her to take my coat, and each time my voice was not louder but certainly more annoyed. These are the sins for which my daughter gave me about 3 hours of lecture a few nights ago. I sat there just wondering how I could make it better, certainly for her, and recalling how this judgement of everything I do is nothing new. I had hoped it had disappeared, but it is still alive in her. I am not sure where ti comes from. I was not a perfect "mom", but I was a pretty good one. Just being able to sit and listen to her criticize and berate me for 3 hours and then hug her tell her to not "worry, it's all good, and I heard everything she said" makes me a pretty mom I think.
So you have some tough times ahead I am sorry to say. For me, I try to keep the goal firmly in my mind. The goal as I see being to raise a person who is able to make their way in the world, have friends, make a living, marry, and know something of the pleasures and fulfillment life can bring. Good luck. It gets pretty lonely. Since my daughter doesn't focus on my husband, he doesn't notice or feel it like I do. Hang in there and know you are not alone.
at the end of my rope
I hear your concern. We have an article series by James
Lehman that addresses this very topic. You can find links to Part I and Part 2
here: https://www.empoweringparents.com/article/running-away-part-i-why-kids-do-it-and-how-to-stop-them/ & https://www.empoweringparents.com/article/running-away-part-ii-mom-i-want-to-come-home-when-your-child-is-on-the-streets/.
Something to keep in mind – your daughter is still quite young and, while I can
understand being worried she might run away when she gets older, it may be more
effective to focus on what you can do now to help her develop better problem solving
and coping skills. Sara Bean has a great article that reviews how to help your
child develop these important skills in her article https://www.empoweringparents.com/article/the-surprising-reason-for-bad-child-behavior-i-cant-solve-problems/. I hope
you find this information useful. Be sure to check back if you have any further
questions. Take care.
I have a 16 year old daughter who over the past 2 1/2 years has ran away from us 8 times. This last stretch of 7 months have been great. She has followed the rules and gone to class as expected. We finally thought we were past the hump of all the chaos that made no since. Then on New Year's Eve she tried to run away and was caught at the airport this time. She continues to put herself in danger by talking with and meeting complete strangers from the Internet. We have had her on pretty strict restrictions and had been giving her some trust that we believed that she earned. Now with the recent runaway attempt I don't know what to do to stop this behavior. I feel help captive. Everything was going fine and then BAM! right back to where I can't sleep at night and my 16 year old needs a babysitter if I need to run to an appointment. I had her looked at be several specialist whom all told me she has no mental defect or disorder. The only thing we have been told is abs has ODD which there is no cure and no real guideance. If anyone has any suggestions I am all ears. I feel like I am failing her and don't know what else I can do to help her see how dangerous her behavior is.
Thank you in advance for any advice.
Witsendinohio My daughter is the same. The past year, she has been missing 60 times, once was for four days. I do not really know how I've coped. Stealing, aggressive, lying continually, lazy, hasn't attended school for two years, now in trouble with the police...
One thing that has helped me is the Take3 parenting course. It's about communicating- some of it addresses consequences. I wouldn't say I've succeeded, but I certainly feel calmer and happier and am more certain of my ground these days. I think my daughter has ODD and am waiting endlessly for help from CAMHS (mental health services in the UK), but the current government has cut funding for this, and continues to cut more.
I wish you the very best of luck, and moninja712 above- I really feel for you. You're not alone, and maybe these kids will one day be world-changers, if we can somehow get them through their teens without parent or child expiring!
CAMHS are hopeless. Not their fault, I guess. They just don’t have the money or resources. We have had problems with our son for the past decade. No official diagnosis but clearly ADHD and ODD. Also has problems with eating. We have asked several times for help but each time are essentially told that his problems are not serious enough to warrant intervention. I don’t know what it would take to get help - I dread to think what the kids who are entitled to receive help are doing. It must be extremely violent or dangerous. I wonder if CAMHS see us and think because we are well spoken and not poor we should fund therapy ourselves. However we don’t have much disposable income. Counselling is £100 per session and from what I’ve read on websites like this it doesn’t necessarily change much.
The advice on this site is excellent though, and is having some effect.
It’s just such hard work. Every day is spent dealing with my eldest, to the detriment of everyone else in the family.
Witsendinohio
I’m sorry to hear your daughter is using running away as a
way to manage and cope with situations she finds difficult. As James Lehman
explains in the article https://www.empoweringparents.com/article/running-away-part-i-why-kids-do-it-and-how-to-stop-them/, some kids do resort to
running away when they lack the skills to deal with challenges they may face at
home or at school. I can understand your concern. This behavior can put your daughter
in harms way. It may be helpful to contact the National Runaway Safeline to
talk with a specially trained counselor about possible steps you can take to
help you daughter and your family. You can reach the Safeline 24 hours a day by
calling 1-800- 786-2929. You can also find
them online at http://www.1800runaway.org .
Good luck to you and your family moving forward. Take care.
Frustrating Mom
You ask a great question. Considering that your daughter is
already scheduled to see a psychiatrist, that may be the best place to start.
The psychiatrist would be able to determine what, if any, evaluations and
assessments would be needed and would also be able to refer you to someone who
is certified to conduct those assessments in your local area. Good luck to you
and your family moving forward. Take care.
Nilda3720
I am so sorry to hear you are facing these challenges with
your teen son. I’m glad you have found Empowering Parents and hope you will
continue to find help and support through our community. We don’t have
recommendations for specific programs or other professional services. You may
find it helpful to contact the 211 Helpline, a nationwide referral services.
You can reach the Helpline 24 hours a day by calling 1-800-273-6222. You can
also find them online at http://www.211.org/. We
appreciate you writing in and wish you the best of luck moving forward. Take care.
Heavy heart
It’s normal to feel hurt when http://www.empoweringparents.com/i-hate-you-mom-i-wish-you-were-dead-when-kids-say-hurtful-things.php, or gives you the http://www.empoweringparents.com/Child-Giving-You-the-Silent-Treatment-Getting-Kids-To-Talk.php. After all, this is your own child, and those words and
actions wound a parent deep to the core. As hard as it is, though, I
encourage parents to do their best not to take this personally. Even
though it feels very much like a personal attack, it is usually more about your
son’s ineffective methods of solving problems rather than his feelings toward
you. In the moment, I recommend giving this as little attention as
possible so as not to give it more power. It is concerning that your son
is becoming physically abusive toward his sister, and I strongly encourage you
to develop a safety plan that you can use to keep everyone in the house
safe. I do not recommend becoming physical in response to his actions
because that often tends to escalate a situation. Instead, it might be
more effective to use local supports, such as a crisis response team or law
enforcement, to help you maintain a safe environment in your home. You
can get information on available resources in your community by contacting the http://www.211.org/ at 1-800-273-6222. I recognize
what a difficult situation this must be for you, and I wish you and your family
all the best moving forward. Take care.
SJV
It can be so difficult when parents aren’t on the same page
when it comes to expectations and discipline. I’ve spoken with many parents in
similar situations so you’re not alone. It’s not uncommon for parents to see
and handle things differently. It’s probably going to be most productive to
focus on where you have the most control – namely how you respond to your son’s
behavior. For example, when your son is being verbally abusive to you, you
could start disconnecting and walking away instead of responding to his
behavior. You could say something like “Don’t talk to me that way. I don’t like
it” and then turn around and walk away. You can find out more about this
technique in Carole Banks article http://www.empoweringparents.com/do-you-personalize-your-childs-behavior-when-he-disobeys-you.php. From what you have written, it
sounds like the biggest issues revolve around your son’s drug and alcohol use.
That’s a tough one for sure because you’re not going to be able to control the
choices he makes concerning those substances. Granted, you can have clear
limits and boundaries within your home regarding substance use and can also
hold him accountable when you discover he’s used substances outside of your
home. You can’t make him stop using however. I would encourage you to continue
utilizing the outside supports you now have in place, You might also consider
looking into supports groups in your area, such as http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/ and http://www.nar-anon.org/. Many families have found this
type of support to be very helpful. Good luck to you and your family as you
work through these challenges. Be sure to check back to let us know how things
are going. Take care.
As I was reading the articles from various parents I can
relate to each one and their struggles, fears, and the feeling, they are the
one losing control with their ADHD/ODD child. At this time, we do not know who
is going to win when it comes, our grandson (we are his legal guardian) who is
ODD, ADHA, mood disorders, in addition to three or four more disabilities. We
have him on medications, anger management sessions, he see a psychologist every
other week and goes to Pecan Valley for help. He was in three mental hospitals
within six months and the staff on the metal floor gave us the impression we
were crazy because he was a prefect child while he was at their faculty, so
each time we went home with no help until we called the police. The police took
him a state funds metal faculty and he was not a happy child while he was in
their care. Every day is a new days for us because we do not know if he will
decide to be good or bad. I have had several physical fights with him. My
husband had to make him leave the swimming pool and walk home because he would
not do as he told. He will not leave his brother along on Wednesday nights at
church, so we told him he could not go to Wednesday church. It has been a
living HELL at our house since we took in our three grandchildren. As of now we
are back to where we started with him three ago. How sad for our grandson, as
well as us. Our grandson, his brother, and sister came from a very unstable
home environment. God gives us these children with problems such as our
grandson because God knows we will not give on them even when there times we would
like send them somewhere else to live just as long as they are out of our sight . We all need to remember they were given
to us from God for a reason.
I am at my wits end. My boyfriend is moving out soon because he cannot tolerate the chaos at home. I am glad to have stumbled across this article, it is validating to read that others are experiencing the same sort of parenting WAR I am. I constantly worry over my 7-year old ADHD, ODD son's future - will he be that conduct disorder teenager? Will he run away and do drugs, or get put in jail? The adult version of the way my son behaves at 7 years old is NOT a pretty picture. It is that of a criminal! I see him in college, leading people and accomplishing great things. He has a great mind that should not be wasted with this behavior nonsense!
One minute he is loving, peaceful, insightful, brilliant, affectionate - the next he is a terrifying, apathetic little monster.
At his IEP, it was said by his principal, "He will either be the CEO of a company, or a criminal mastermind." We have home based therapy starting in 2 weeks and it can't come soon enough. He is also in a special behavioral school during the year, and sees a psychiatrist for medication (which has helped tremendously with the impulsivity.)
He does NOT respond to ANY form of punishment; while being punished, he finds ways to be MORE punished, and I've run out of things to take away. My bag of tricks is seriously empty. I just cry about it. He doesn't care, and he tells me so. Right now, he has been grounded for over a MONTH - meaning, after camp he comes home, sits on his bed with no toys and no activity until dinner, eats dinner and goes to bed. I've removed all the toys from his room, he watches as his friends come to the door and ask if he can come out to play and I tell them, "I'm sorry, he's grounded" this has NO effect on him. You'd think he would feel sad about it. Nope! He wanders out of his room, makes a mess in the bathroom sink, finds something in his room to play with - wood pieces he peeled from his bookshelf, a piece of lint, whatever. This week we were supposed to go to Vacation Bible School, I gave him a zillion chances, and it was my last resort - I took it away. Bible school! He didn't even care!
He continues to defecate himself as well. I almost think he enjoys getting in trouble, enjoys seeing me stressed out. I am a single mom, all our family lives in another state, I work full time and attend college part time. Everything I have been working for, for US to live a good and decent life - it's all going to fall apart if something doesn't change SOON.
I need some insight and fresh ideas, or else it will be ME who needs committed!
@MomIsFadingAway
After reading your response, I feel like I wrote it. My daughter is 10 and was just recently diagnosed with ODD, ADHD, and a learning disability. It has been a constant struggle for the last couple years with her. I feel like we have tried everything with her and nothing has worked, it has just gotten worse. She just started the 5th grade and is at a 3rd grade academic level. I am frustrated with myself for not fighting harder for her with getting this diagnosis. I am frustrated with the school for not doing more with her. It is like she never went to 4th grade. I am now fighting with the school to get her into special ed so she can get caught back up. We have had behavioral health specialists, and counselors. As a last resort we are going to try medication for her. If this does not work, I do not know what to do next.
@MomIsFadingAway
I hear you. It can be extremely frustrating when it seems as
though no amount of consequencing has an impact on behavior. I think it can be
helpful to know that consequences are only part of helping a child towards
better behavior. Truth of the matter is, you can’t actually punish a child into
better behavior. True behavior changes comes about when the child learns better
coping or problem solving skills, as James Lehman explains in the article The 3 Skills Every Child Needs for Good Behavior. It also usually isn’t effective to take away all privileges
as a child who has lost everything literally has nothing left to lose. As
parents, we think it would motivate our child to turn his behavior around in
order to earn back at least one privilege. It is often more demotivating and
causes the child to give up entirely. What may be more effective is picking one
behavior to focus on at a time and linking one privilege to that behavior, as
suggested in the article “My Child’s Behavior Is So Bad, Where Do I Begin?” How to Coach Your Child Forward. This does mean you are going to have to pick your battles and
allow some of his acting out behavior go. We also wouldn’t recommend using any
of the tools or techniques discussed on Empowering Parents to address any type
of toileting issue. It would be better to work closely with your son’s
pediatrician on addressing that behavior. I hope this information is useful for
your situation. Be sure to check back if you have any further questions. Take
care.
This last few days has gotten worse! Now my fiancé is in the hospital for probably a week or more due to staph infection. The boy is still treating me like garbage! Which his younger brother retorted; "He treats garbage better than you!" This broke my heart! So I asked him if his brother treats their mother like this and he said excitedly; "Yes! That's why he wanted to come live here!"
So, had another fight with the 14 yr old! I took his phone away cause every time we have a fight he goes and tells this drawn out lie to his dad that I started it when he always ALWAYS starts these fights! I'm done with him and his attitude! I wish I could take all the things I've given him back that I didn't spend joint account money on, but my very own money, for his clothes, games, toys etc. but he used stuff once and trashes his room and tears the sheets off his bed and leaves his rats cage nasty and doesn't vacuum the rat poop off the floor sometimes leaves the trash bag of rat poop sitting in a corner of his room! I've addressed this and many other things with my fiancé and he doesn't believe me. He thinks I've been over reacting. Well my fiancé under reacts and doesn't discipline him in front of me or not at all! I FINALLY got my fiancé to take him to therapy. Then today he said he won't call the therapist! The thing that bothers me the most is I've confronted the mother today and she's basically blaming me for his attitude! Unacceptable! I told her that she & my fiancé need to fix it not me! I'm not his parent (after she said I need to parent him) makes no sense to me when my fiancé & pastor said I cannot parent him only my fiancé can. My fiancé never truly set ground rules when the kids first moved in with us. We have a chore chart which kinda works but it's still not followed by the 14yr old as he just does half and when I tell my fiancé that it wasn't done or not done properly the kid throws a hissy fit like a 2yr old. He also doesn't say please, thank you and never answers with anything nice to say. He still throws things and slams doors, stomps off like that's going to give him any sympathy! No! I have tried and tried being nice, being mean, being calm, being crazy like him. NOTHING WORKS! My fiancé still won't take him to the regular dr to get the ODD test!! He started running away outside I told him to get his but back in this house! He treats me like crap every day and worse and worse! Even more so when my fiancé isn't there! And now his older sister is saying I start the fights which is NOT TRUE AT ALL!! He starts by yelling, complaining or commenting instead of doing minor things I discuss or ask him help with or ask a simple question calmly & collectively. He flies off the handle EVERY TIME!
If things aren't over for my fiancé and I, I may set up a nanny cam to get the brat on tape/video to prove to my fiancé his behavior and attitude towards me and his siblings.
He's also the most selfish kid I know! He only ever does things to benefit himself and inconvenience others. Then come to find out he hurts himself, gets the first aid kit out and bleeds and doesn't clean up properly, there's still blood on my bathroom wall! And doesn't put things back where they belong or trashes my living area. His sister is notorious for that too!
Luckily I'll have a small break from him for two weeks while he's visiting his mother, however I think the mom & dad need to teach him in another way, even though I think they have tried a lot too, they need to teach him a lesson he'll never forget. Anyone got any suggestions? Thanks!
Trying2Cope
It sounds like you have been
facing some challenging situations with your fiancé’s son and it has created
quite a bit of stress in your life. We hear from families everyday who are in
similar situations and we know it is not easy. Our suggestion would be to focus
on what you can control and not what you can’t. You can control how you respond
to your future stepson and you can make sure you are taking care of yourself
when things get frustrating. You can’t control how your fiancé chooses to
discipline his children or how your stepson behaves. James Lehman
discusses the difficulties of blending families and what you can do about it in
his 2 part series of articles http://www.empoweringparents.com/My-Blended-Family-Wont-Blend-Help-Part1-How-to-get-on-the-same-page-with-your-spouse.php and http://www.empoweringparents.com/My-Blended-Family-Wont-Blend-Help-PartII-What-to-Do-When-Your-Stepkids-Dont-Respect-You.php. James talks about the primary parent, your fiancé, taking to
lead role with it comes to behavior expectations and giving consequences. This
allows you to work on establishing a relationship with your future stepchildren
without having to be seen as the bad guy all the time. It also sets up a more
effective family dynamic when the biological parent is the one taking the lead
parenting role for his children. You would be best to focus on staying out of http://www.empoweringparents.com/Power-Struggles-with-a-Defiant-Child.php and not reacting to the kids disrespect or not doing their chores
to your satisfaction. When the kids are doing something that is frustrating, do
something that is calming for you, like taking a walk or calling a friend.
Doing that will help you to respond effectively and takes you away from being
an audience to the behavior. It certainly is not easy to blend a family and to
be successful at it requires a lot of patience, compromise and self care. Thank
you for writing in. We hope this helps to answer your questions. Take care.
I'm super annoyed by the fact that my fiancé's son, who is 14, has ADHD but not diagnosed with odd. My fiancé won't take him to therapy. My fiancé didn't back me up at first but has now been seeing how his son treats me and talks to me. It's EVERY DAY we have conflicts and disarray in our family environment. I have been seeing a counselor. My fiancé & I are seeing our pastor. My fiancé's daughter is in therapy as well, but she's older and much more responsible than the 14yr old boy.
I've been reading these articles and posts and showing the millions of examples to my fiancé and he seems to deny that his son has odd.
The 14yr old boy has empathy, however not so much with family, but more with his friends, and treats them and church people and strangers better than myself, and his siblings. I know there's a lot of psychological factors from his parents divorcing, moving several times, but the control he wants his unbearable. I have to constantly tell him how inappropriate his words are and how badly he treats us and he won't budge to apologize or take our consequences seriously. We have to basically have a shouting match back & forth cause he starts yelling at us first.
There were a couple times I had to pull him aside to tell him about his inappropriate behavior, such as throwing tantrums like a 2yr old, throwing things across the room that aren't his, not doing his chores or doing them correctly, or says inappropriate things to me and or someone else. He doesn't grasp the concept of respect and never seems to understand the concept.
How can I convince my fiancé that this is a serious thing and that his son needs therapy more than ANYTHING?
Trying2Cope
It
can be very frustrating when it feels like you are not on the same page as your
fiancee when you are co-parenting his kids. One of the things we
frequently discuss with parents is the importance of http://www.empoweringparents.com/My-Blended-Family-Wont-Blend-Help-Part1-How-to-get-on-the-same-page-with-your-spouse.php with all of the adults in the household. This is
important for most kids, and if there is a diagnosis or other factors involved,
it becomes even more so. A good place to start might be by creating a
definition of what respect means or looks like in your household. We
recommend making this definition as specific and concrete as possible, mainly
because “respect” can mean different things to different people. For
example, you might include as part of your definition things like “No
name-calling”, “No throwing things”, “Do things the first time you are told”,
and so on. If you are having trouble finding that common ground, it could
be useful to discuss this with a neutral third-party, such as the pastor you
are seeing together. Once you have developed this definition, we tend to
find that it is more effective for the biological parent to take the lead on
presenting and enforcing the rules to their child, while the step-parent takes
on more of a supportive role. I recognize how challenging this must be
for you, and I hope that you will continue to check in and let us know how
things are going for all of you. Take care.
RebeccaW_ParentalSupport Trying2Cope
I wanted to define "respect" in our family, but my husband refused. As a result, rules of respect are meaningless because of lack of definition. Moreover, he doesn't believe anyone else could possibly be right. Especially, if they happen to agree with anything I might say. What can I do?
@sparz RebeccaW_ParentalSupport Trying2Cope
You make a great
point that it can be difficult to create house rules when parents cannot agree
on definitions of appropriate or inappropriate behavior. Although
parenting differences are common, what can sometimes happen is that kids will
recognize these disagreements, and try to use those to their advantage as James
Lehman discusses in his article https://www.empoweringparents.com/article/differences-in-parenting-how-your-child-may-be-using-it-against-you/. As I
mentioned in my earlier comment, I often encourage parents to try to https://www.empoweringparents.com/article/when-parents-disagree-10-ways-to-parent-as-a-team/. One place to start might be to find areas where you agree,
however small it may be, such as both of you agreeing that name-calling is
disrespectful. Please let us know if you have any additional questions;
take care.
Oh boy - this is hard isn't it?
I have read all of the posts & connect with the experiences of many. I have an 11 year old boy. He is diagnosed ODD for the last 6 years or so. Before that we worked with his sensory integration disorder and a speech delay. That was the easy part. My full time job (fully supported by my husband) was creating a sensory rich environment he could grow in. The work paid off - he is now a star athlete and an honor roll school student at a very high achieving school. He is categorized at being 99.9% intellectually. But his intellect is a huge part of the issues we deal with every day. First consultation with a psychologist - "What do you want most?" "To be boss of the world." So that is what we are dealing with. He thinks he is smarter than any one else in the family & is better equipped to make all decisions. I cannot have my 11 year old be my boss!
We have visited 3 psychologists, 1 neurologist & 2 psychiatrists in the past 3 years. They all think he is a fascinating case - but that doesn't help me. The neurologist said "He will make certain that he is fine - I am concerned about you," The general consensus is that he perfectly understands all the emotional coping mechanisms he is taught, but has no interest in following them - deep breaths, imagining peaceful places, breathing into a bag etc, because he is 100% happy with who and where he is. I truly fear his emotional disconnect .
I recently did a face plant in our garden, smashed my face - lots of blood, drama etc - he was fascinated with the logistics - which hospital I would go to etc, never asked how I was.
When his litlle brother ended up in urgent care on Christmas Eve for an MRI - he was fascinated with the procedures - never asked "Is he ok?"
Sandy Hook - we told both boys what happened & said it would be insensitive to play outside with nerf guns etc. Younger son cried & cried for the kids & families - older son - what guns did he use, how did he get them?
Full disclosure - It is an increasing battle to like him as a person, and I worry I may not be able to continue to love him as he destroys an otherwise very happy family.
Where do I go from here?
freckamac
You have been dealing with some very challenging behaviors.
It’s normal for any parent to have times when they don’t especially like their
child. This can be especially true when you have a child who is defiant or acts
out in unusual ways. Feelings such as you describe can be a sign that our
boundaries are being crossed. It can also be a indication of personality differences.
Parents are human, too, and our feelings for our kids can be influenced by
their actions and choices. Debbie Pincus addresses this topic in her article http://www.empoweringparents.com/Sometimes-I-Dont-Like-My-Child.php. It can be helpful to develop some ways of
taking care of yourself when these feelings begin to have a negative impact on
your interactions with your child. Self care is an important, though often
overlooked, part of being an effective parent. Finding time to incorporate
activities you enjoy, like spending time with friends or doing a hobby you
like, can do much toward helping one cope with the ordeals that are part of raising a child who
has difficult behaviors. Keep in mind - it may take longer for some kids to
develop empathy. Social-emotional development occurs over time and even
though your son may be focused on the mechanics of things at age 11, this
doesn’t mean this is how he will always relate to the world. We appreciate you
writing in and wish you and your family the best of luck moving forward. Be
sure to check back and let us know how things are going. Take care.
scoobie2412
Many parents of children with ODD relate similar feelings of
being exhausted and overwhelmed, so, you’re not alone. It can be tough to
parent a child who seems to fight back against any type of “control” or
accountability. Sometimes, it does become a matter of picking your battles,
especially when there is aggression or violence involved, as Kim and Marney
explain in their article Intimidating Teen Behavior: Is It ODD or Conduct Disorder?. When it’s a matter of
keeping everyone safe, then walking away may be your best option. In situations
where you feel intimidated or afraid of your daughter, letting the behavior go
is probably going to be a key factor in not escalating the situation further. I
understand it may feel like you’re not being a “responsible” parent when you
walk away from an argument or conflict. However, the safety and security of all
family members is a parents first responsibility. If walking away
achieves that result, then you are doing what you can given the circumstances.
We do have another article you may find useful for the situation you
describe. In the article Parental Abuse: What to Do When Your Child or Teen Hits You, Kim and
Marney offer some suggestions for what you can do when your daughter
becomes physically aggressive towards you or another family member. I hope you
find the information on Empowering Parents helpful. Be sure to check back if
you have any questions. Good luck to you and your family moving forward.
Migg desperate mother
Many parents are
troubled when their child has behavior problems at school. It can also be
difficult to address because you are not there to witness what is
happening. Something that can be useful is to http://www.empoweringparents.com/the-surprising-reason-for-bad-child-behavior.php
with your son about his classroom behavior when he is home. For example,
you could ask him what his goal was in hitting his classmate, and then talk
about how he could have handled that differently. You might also consider
talking with his teacher and his therapist about his classroom behavior in
order to develop a plan moving forward to address it. We have more tips
about how to address inappropriate behavior at school in our article http://www.empoweringparents.com/Young-kids-acting-out-in-school.php.
I understand how difficult this situation must be for you, and I hope that you
will continue to let us know how things are going for you and your family.
Take care.
My friend's son, age 6, has been diagnosed with ADHD and is receiving stimulant treatment, though no behaviour management education. Her son is utterly defiant, angry and deliberately oppositional to authority figures. He also bosses his friends around to the point where they cry: he either pushes them physically or demeans them or their ideas the whole time and accuses them of being responsible for his mistakes and says they cannot be certain characters during games etc (he assumes control of all the games). He also disrupts other childrens' learning as he constantly distracts them during class. He is not a pleasure to have around at all. When he is asked to do something he looks the adult in the eye and says 'I definitely will not do that' with a knowing smile on his face. Or he says 'I can do what ever I want', or 'you cannot control me'. If he gets given a treat, he flaunts it in front of his friends and taunts them that they don't have a treat.
His Mom seems to want a quiet life and gives in to his demands for treats that other children haven't got, thus feeding in to his control behaviour. He kicks and punches his mother as well.
He is becoming an actual bully in school, and other children are either compliant with him out of fear or starting to avoid him. Nothing is being done as I don't think his Mom wants to admit the problem. ADHD is perhaps an easier diagnosis to accept for you child than ODD.
Any tips for helping this Mom parent her child more effectively before he seriously hurts her?
@Linkin
We appreciate you reaching out to Empowering Parents to help
your friend deal with the challenging behaviors she is experiencing with her
son. I imagine it must be really tough to watch her struggle with her son’s
defiance and anger. Because we are a website aimed at helping people who are in
a direct parenting role develop more effective strategies for managing
behavior, we are limited in the specific coaching we are able to do with
someone outside of that direct parenting role. We do have several articles that
focus on acting out behaviors such as you describe. You might consider sharing
some of these articles with your friend. Two in particular she may find useful
are Challenging Parenting Issues: 5 of the Hardest Things Parents Face & How to Respond to Disrespectful Children and Teens. You might also encourage
her to seek out some support for herself as well. Dealing with extreme behavior
day in and day out can be overwhelming and exhausting. There may be a support
group in her area; many parents find it beneficial to talk with others who are
facing the same struggles they are. The 211 Helpline, a nationwide referral
surface, would be able to help her find information on resources in her
community. The Helpline can be reached 24 hours a day by calling
1-800-273-6222. They can also be found online at http://www.211.org/.
I hope she finds this information helpful. Take care.
anf092813
It would be difficult for anyone to determine if your son has
ODD without a formal evaluation. You might consider having him seen by his
doctor or primary care provider to rule out any possible underlying issues that
may be having an effect on his attention or behavior. S/he would also be able
to refer your son for further evaluation if that were deemed necessary. In the
meantime, it may be helpful to determine what specific issues your son is
having in school. Perhaps he has a hard time focusing in class, or maybe finds
it difficult to stay on task while doing homework. It would be beneficial to
touch base with his teacher to see if she can add any information as well. Once
you have an idea of what the issue is, you can then develop an action plan for
working through it. For example, if homework is the issue, you could set up a
structured homework time and link him completing his homework to one of his
privileges. If the issue is not staying on task in school, then you might work
with him to strengthen his focus coupled with an incentive chart. We have a
couple articles you may find useful for your situation: Child Losing Steam? How to Keep Kids and Teens Motivated at School & “My Child Refuses to Do Homework” — How to Stop the Nightly Struggle Over School Work. On a side note, taking privileges away for extended periods of
time usually isn’t an effective way of motivating behavior change. Shorter time
frames, with a specific plan for
what needs to happen to earn the privilege back, is usually more effective at
encouraging your child to make more positive choices. I hope this information
is helpful. I hope you will continue to check in and let us know how things are
going. Take care.
With three lovely children 8 to 13 we have managed to go past consequences style parenting to no consequences, no punishment and all is remarkably well.
Most important is to include the whole family in setting the limitations. When the children know that they can be included in discussion and are listened to is setting the rules, it is amazing how they just seem to abide by what was set.
Well it does make sense though!
As parents we are not here to control our children. Rewards and punishment style parenting is about control.
This sets up a cycle of push back by child and punish, more push back by child and punish, etc.
Even rewards are about control.
We are here to guide the, not control them.
@BritKids
So happy for you.
We too have three lovely children whom it is a joy to parent and guide. We also have a fourth child does not know he is lovely. He turns what could be a lovely, civilized family life into a war zone beyond your imagination.
I am sure you mean well, and what you speak has truth, but please be aware that your cloistered pronouncements to those of us in the trenches has a disconnect akin to "Let them eat cake!"
The game becomes very different when you are dealt a joker. Most card games do not include rules to even play with jokers.
Is it possible for kid to be a passive ODD? Consequences definitely don't work for my 17yo, and he doesn't seem to much care what I think, but he's a very sweet kid, and although we do sometimes get to shouting, it's not a daily thing. It's just that nothingMore I have ever tried as far as helping him to get schoolwork done, get up on time, and so on, seems to work. He doesn't yell (or not to an unusual degree) or act aggressive, but he doesn't learn from any consequences either, and he doesn't seem to want to do well in school or please his parents--or do much of anything but hang out!
KatiePowellHannah
You bring up a great point. Many times, parents believe a
consequence isn’t working because it doesn’t appear as though their child is
learning from the consequence. Truth be told, the purpose of a consequence
isn’t necessarily to teach a child anything. While it is helpful if the
consequence makes the child uncomfortable so he thinks twice before doing the
behavior again, the main purpose of a consequence is to hold a child
accountable for his choices. Does this mean that a child can’t learn from a
consequence? Absolutely not. If a child touches a hot stove and suffers the
natural consequence of burning his hand, odds are he isn’t going to touch the
stove again. For things such as losing cell phone or computer privileges if he doesn’t do his school work, a child
may decide not doing the school work is worth the consequence. And, while it
may seem counter-intuitive, taking a privilege away for a longer period of time
doesn’t make the consequence more effective because true behavior change
happens when the child learns better problem solving skills. It sounds like
your son may be dealing with the problem of not wanting to do his homework by
avoiding it. One thing we find to be helpful is making consequences task
specific. Using the example of the cell phone, your son would earn his cell
phone privilege for the day by completing his homework. If he doesn’t complete his homework, he wouldn’t earn his cell for
that day. He would have another chance to earn the cell phone tomorrow by
completing his homework. For more information on task oriented consequences,
you may find this article useful: How to Give Kids Consequences That Work.
Another important function of a task oriented consequence is it allows
your child to practice the appropriate problem solving skills that are
determined through conversations you have with him about the choices he is
currently making. You could problem solve the difficulties he faces getting up in the morning during a calm time. For
example, is the issue that he stays up too late or maybe he has a hard time
hearing his alarm? What steps could he take to deal with these challenges
effectively? Sara Bean gives more tips for having a problem solving
conversation in her article The Surprising Reason for Bad Child Behavior: “I Can’t Solve Problems”. Remember, your job as a parent is to give your son
the tools and opportunities to develop the skills to be successful. What he
does with them is really up to him. We appreciate you writing in and wish your
family the best of luck moving forward. Be sure to check back and let us know
how things are going. Take care.
My soon to be 18 year old daughter is ODD, and yes she is indeed a rebel. We took away her phone and she used her iPod on WiFYI. She has been meeting sstrange guys on Meet Me and getting in cars cars with them. We aren't able to controlMore her anymore.
Oh am I glad a came across this site. I have a 13 year old daughter, I have been struggling with for years. We have tried every parenting situation we can think of from rewards charts, taking things away, grounding, taking doors off hinges.. you name it we have tried it. For years I felt bad because I've always sensed something wasn't quite right, and something was different.
She had gotten to the point where she shut down completely stopped trying in school, stopped listening to us, her friendships would suffer, she would put herself in risky situations, getting in trouble at school, and getting in risky situations with boys. We have had to call the cops several times, for running away, not coming home, or just down right refusal of listening and anger and aggression. The lies and manipulations were so bad we were getting investigated by DCS just because she didn't want me to have a boyfriend (of 6 years mind you) and was trying to run him off, because she wanted it to be just me and her again.
To make a long story short. We have done individual therapy for her, in home therapy, group therapy, and none of that worked. She began cutting herself and that escalated her into a Residential treatment program. She has been there for over a month now, and we are seeing some dramatic changes.
The program helps her get into a structured environment, makes her realize that she has to listen to authority or she won't get to come home. It may sound drastic, but after all the therapy and nothing working, that was our final step.
We are hoping when she is finally released we will see positive changes, we also will have to keep up that structure in our home, and they are teaching us ways to deal with our ADHD, ODD, BIPOLAR teenage girl. I'm so glad that I'm not alone in this. I used to feel like it was my fault raising her as a single mother, until I realized that I've done everything in my power to teach her the ways of life, its just that she was either unable to obtain them, or not willing. I too have been blamed as a parent of not parenting correctly and that burden has weighed on me heavily. I'm so glad to know that their are others out there who know what a struggle this is. Hang in there, do all that you can for your child, and never shy away from treatment facilities that could offer the help that you cannot provide.
It's tough but you can do it!
motherof13yrgirl
I have a 13 year old too and was interested to read your story. She has ODD ADHD impulsive type. We have had to call the police several times and tried all types of therapy. Our last resort is a residential treatment facility but I am worried what she will learn from other children. I would love to connect with you to hear how it is going.
motherof13yrgirl
motherof13yrgirl you're not parenting wrong, there in fact is nothing wrong with your parenting. Remember ODD doesn't respond to therapy well in all cases. There are some changes you may have to make and remember at some point your daughter will eventually calm down as the brain tends to change in many cases. Because you do realize that your child has quite a few things going on; you actually help her. Have you tried direct coaching on your own? If so stick with it and let me know how it goes. It would look like this; "modeling your emotional skills and teaching her to use words to convey emotions rather than actions may (and notice I say may) help. I know you're tougher than you think and your daughter will be fine.
We too use a TEASPOT approach which is take everything away for a short period of time, which in some aspects works and others does not.. My child has no problem being alone with his thoughts for a short period of time. I do however find that EARNING things heMore loves to do work as REWARDS... ie: video games, pc time, ipad, etc... We have worked on a point system as that has worked before... he has memorized Bible verse, done chores, read for x amt of minutes, done physical activities (Wii Fit, biking, swimming, etc) to earn points to get his time to play and do what he wants... it seems to work better than just giving him what he wants when he wants and since we are financially strapped we cannot afford to just hand over money as in an allowance. I do hear the words, I Don't Care ALOT when he is in trouble with lots of pouting, stomping, etc and he is 13 1/2. Very disheartening. The latest is that he is not going to come home from his mothers after visits (he goes every other weekend and Weds after school). The threat scares his dad, but dad retains custody. The police have been called 3-5 times in the past 2 yrs since puberty began. He has been in counseling. At times I am at my wits end with both his parents and others.. I do understand the 15 yr old who states that some kids it just does not seem to matter... It is rough, he is highly intelligent and very creative, but a loner and only child so time alone is nothing for him.. :(
Thanks for the ideas anyway..
I'm a 15 year old teen girl here. I have ODD and just want to let you guys know that these "fail safe" consequences don't work. You take away my internet? That's fine. I'll be just as happy reading a book. Ground me? I doubt I wanted to go anyways. Take away my books? That's okay, I'll write instead. Take all of these away? I'll survive, I can take a nice bath, have some tea and a tech/activity free night. Quarantine me to my room? You can't stop me from planning out a story in my head or pondering deep, ethical questions. (I do find that last activity entertaining, believe it or not.)
Sorry if this is disheartening but I thought you should know that this might not work on all ODD children. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to give you a realistic expectation of what might happen if you attempt to implement the "fail safe" consequences.
@Guest16 Thank you for your candor. Can you help me understand you (as well as my son)? What goes through your mind when you are grounded or given consequences?
Do you rebel because you feel someone is trying to conform you, for spite or to get back at your parents? Do feel like no one has control or should have control over you or ....what? Do you even give any thought to the consequence or do you just move on to the next thing without any thought or feeling? What would you like from your parents or society? Are you happy in general? Do you think others are demanding, unrealistic, stupid? Do you feel like no one understands you? If so, tell me what would help. Thanks for taking the time to share...
@Guest16 Just curious if you have any advise as to what would work?